Ep11: Breaking up is Hard to Do

[00:00:07] Welcome back to the Meamp podcast, it's me, Jason and my dad Matt Hi Dad.

[00:00:13] Hey son, nice to see you again.

[00:00:15] Likewise.

[00:00:16] We're both had interesting days.

[00:00:19] We're interesting weekend, I believe, just having a bit of a chat earlier.

[00:00:22] We're just going on buddy family.

[00:00:26] Interesting family. What's going on with you?

[00:00:28] Well, I had a totally free weekend mapped out.

[00:00:31] And I was so much looking forward to it because I was busy this week.

[00:00:36] Did I tell you last night, I went to see Led Zeppelin 4?

[00:00:40] Led Zeppelin 4?

[00:00:41] The classic album Led Zeppelin 4 performed by the Australian Rock Collective.

[00:00:46] Who were very, very good because no, a few months ago, and I hate cover bands.

[00:00:52] I saw that this outfit I never heard of before was performing at the Palais Theatre

[00:00:57] and they were doing Dark Side of the Moon.

[00:01:01] And this is bullshit.

[00:01:03] Anybody did some research.

[00:01:05] You got the pink Freud shirt on, so you're a purest.

[00:01:08] Yeah, yeah.

[00:01:09] Send to me by your sister, by the way.

[00:01:12] If anyone else makes sure this is captured on one of the reals, you can see the dark side of your mum.

[00:01:18] Yeah, so I continue.

[00:01:19] And I'll just go back to the Pink Floyd episode.

[00:01:24] Yeah, and because Major Harder's Silver Seas had said these guys are good,

[00:01:28] I bought a couple of tickets and I took my friend Danny with me.

[00:01:31] And of course we've played Dark Side of the Moon since the 70s.

[00:01:36] And we know every single track and every single note and so forth.

[00:01:40] And we know that nobody could do as well as, you know, waters and Gilmour.

[00:01:47] Yeah, he was a bit more.

[00:01:49] But we thought, you know, they've got good press so let's give it a go.

[00:01:53] And the first half of the show before the 20 minute break was the whole of the Pink Side of the, sorry,

[00:02:01] the Dark Side of the Moon.

[00:02:02] Yeah, no.

[00:02:04] It's funny.

[00:02:04] That could be a new album too.

[00:02:08] There were two Pink Side of the Moon.

[00:02:09] No, no, we weren't going to get it.

[00:02:10] Oh, no, definitely not.

[00:02:14] What I know, I won't repeat to you.

[00:02:16] No, no, sorry, sorry.

[00:02:19] Like, let's finish the Pink Fogga.

[00:02:20] I want to give it a little bit.

[00:02:22] Okay.

[00:02:23] And we were astounded.

[00:02:25] It was not perfect.

[00:02:28] It was as if we were in the studios with waters and Gilmour and the team.

[00:02:33] Um, hard.

[00:02:34] And the turvers looked at each other and went, are you on drugs?

[00:02:38] No, you're on drugs?

[00:02:40] It was just a perfect.

[00:02:42] Yeah.

[00:02:42] And then the second half of the show, they did medals.

[00:02:47] Also, they did, um,

[00:02:48] What's a classic track from medals?

[00:02:51] Ecos.

[00:02:51] Yep.

[00:02:52] And they did comfortably numb and they did, you know,

[00:02:55] we don't need no education.

[00:02:58] Another brick in the wall.

[00:02:59] And it was absolutely flawless.

[00:03:01] So we thought,

[00:03:02] Hell, they're doing the classic Led Zeppon album.

[00:03:05] And Robert Plant's voice is difficult to replicate.

[00:03:09] It's one of those unique voices.

[00:03:10] Thought we give it a go.

[00:03:12] They did, they very, very well.

[00:03:14] They weren't as perfect as when they did Dark Side of the Moon.

[00:03:17] But it was so close.

[00:03:19] And once they'd finished the album,

[00:03:21] They had a break.

[00:03:22] And then they went into Led Zeppon songs.

[00:03:25] They were having fun with.

[00:03:26] But they were having fun with because they liked them not because they were doing their interpretation.

[00:03:32] And the second half was a real Monte.

[00:03:36] Yeah.

[00:03:36] And just for those listeners who don't know the backstory dead,

[00:03:39] has been an avid constant goer since you were what a teenage young in your 20s.

[00:03:45] I guess?

[00:03:45] Oh, I don't know.

[00:03:47] It's probably heading towards a thousand now.

[00:03:50] Yeah, it's crazy.

[00:03:50] And I don't know how A he has the stamina to keep going to these things at your age.

[00:03:54] But B, how you can afford it and see how you can suffer that inconvenience.

[00:04:00] Because it's hard to go to those things.

[00:04:03] And you have your mimpiles out.

[00:04:04] Thousands of people and you're trying to get a cab.

[00:04:05] And I don't know.

[00:04:06] I find it a little bit of a hassle.

[00:04:07] There's I absolutely love the artist.

[00:04:10] I don't want to inconvenience, but you don't seem to mind it.

[00:04:14] So no, I've had so much experience.

[00:04:16] You know, I just roll with the punches.

[00:04:18] Hmm.

[00:04:18] Okay.

[00:04:19] What's making a rolling with the punches dead?

[00:04:21] You might my weekends all completely changed.

[00:04:24] And I was really looking forward to going seeing my son and spend some time with him and

[00:04:28] Sydney and hanging out and having dinner and just shooting a breeze and everything.

[00:04:32] Had a few other things lined up, booked accommodation, had it all sorted.

[00:04:35] And spoke, he rang me last night.

[00:04:38] You know, into the evening and said, he was really, really sick.

[00:04:40] And I was first I was like, oh, well, I've booked so much around it.

[00:04:44] I don't know if I can change it.

[00:04:46] And when I got home, I thought to myself, hang on a minute.

[00:04:49] The reason I'm going there is was to see him.

[00:04:51] And I booked everything around it.

[00:04:52] You know, at some point going and doing those other things,

[00:04:54] if the core of it isn't going to happen.

[00:04:56] It's nicely.

[00:04:56] So I got on the phone.

[00:04:57] I was pretty tired.

[00:04:59] I was late in the evening.

[00:04:59] I lost, you know, end up losing one of the bookings,

[00:05:02] I was in the hotel because it was within 24 hours.

[00:05:05] I changed one other, post-boner few other things that I was doing.

[00:05:09] And by the time I crawled into bed, you know,

[00:05:11] I don't like half a dozen calls and it texts and emails.

[00:05:14] And I'd largely move things.

[00:05:16] And I just want to, I want him to be better, obviously.

[00:05:18] And I want to see him when he's healthy and strong.

[00:05:20] I don't want him to feel guilty that, you know, he's changing anything for me.

[00:05:23] But, you know, I saw him when I got free weekend.

[00:05:26] Oh, like, oh, that's changed.

[00:05:28] I got no idea what I'm going to do.

[00:05:30] Yeah, let's go.

[00:05:31] That's what I'm doing.

[00:05:33] Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

[00:05:35] Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

[00:05:35] What do you have to do, Dad?

[00:05:36] Let's go another episode and lock down.

[00:05:38] No, well, yeah, that was one idea I had.

[00:05:40] Definitely.

[00:05:41] I'm like, let's get another one in the bank.

[00:05:43] But also just jumped on the bike.

[00:05:45] It's apparently going to be raining tomorrow.

[00:05:46] Jumped on the bike.

[00:05:47] I'll get out for a bike right.

[00:05:48] And oh my god, Dad, I went to the most beautiful location.

[00:05:51] I must have done 20 cases.

[00:05:52] And I'm not, you know, I'm not a cyclist.

[00:05:54] I have a mountain bike and I put music on and I just go off track and have some fun.

[00:05:58] But I found the most stunning vista down at one of the lakes here in Port McQuarry and there's

[00:06:02] no one around.

[00:06:03] And it was just beautiful.

[00:06:04] It was calm.

[00:06:05] I sat there for, you know, maybe 20 minutes just taking in the breeze and the air and

[00:06:10] there wasn't hardly any noise.

[00:06:11] It sounded silence.

[00:06:12] And I was just like, well, you know what?

[00:06:14] I may not have been able to do what I really wanted to was planning on doing.

[00:06:19] But I just feel so grateful to be able to use sitting here right now on this lovely day

[00:06:24] with the sun glistening off the water.

[00:06:26] And I thought, well, this is actually where exactly we're on need to be.

[00:06:29] So it's nice when you can pivot, I guess, and still really you still enjoy the new thing that

[00:06:34] pops up.

[00:06:35] That's true.

[00:06:36] But you've gone from having a beautiful time and nourishing rewarding time with your son

[00:06:42] to having a beautiful connection with nature, which is just as rewarding and nourishing.

[00:06:50] And the fact that it was unexpected made it even more amazing.

[00:06:54] Yeah, well.

[00:06:55] So it's been, you know, thank you for taking some time out and re-ranging your weekend

[00:07:00] for doing one of these.

[00:07:02] So we've got some really good stuff to cover.

[00:07:03] We've actually been doing, I think we've done 10 episodes now talking about your kind of

[00:07:10] your life and throwing a few sort of bits of wisdom in between, I guess, and meet having

[00:07:14] few jabs at you along the way.

[00:07:18] I didn't hear anything like that.

[00:07:21] It's all fun and it all goes here, right?

[00:07:23] And then, but now we're getting to an interesting point where you've had the kids,

[00:07:29] we've had us.

[00:07:31] And obviously the marriage doesn't last as long as maybe the initial, you know, like a lot

[00:07:36] of many was over two and two out at least over 50% of marriages don't go the way people

[00:07:42] think.

[00:07:44] So we are going to explore that in this next segment.

[00:07:48] You ready for that?

[00:07:49] I'm ready for anything, son.

[00:07:50] All right.

[00:07:51] Let's bring it on.

[00:07:51] The meat in him pot glass.

[00:07:55] So we've certainly covered a lot of ground about your background, about grandma

[00:08:00] granddad, even about you and mum meeting, and then obviously having kids.

[00:08:04] And I think that's where we left it last time was that it dad.

[00:08:09] Something like that.

[00:08:10] Yeah, you know, creating the brats.

[00:08:13] Creating the brats is no coincidence yet, and I club called the brat, right?

[00:08:16] You're like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

[00:08:18] It was just a confirmation of life's process.

[00:08:23] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:08:25] So so, and obviously I wasn't brat because I heard from you and mum, I was crying all the time

[00:08:29] Jove everyone crazy.

[00:08:30] Oh, no, no, no, no.

[00:08:31] You're sister, sister, sister.

[00:08:33] I did she.

[00:08:34] I took it off the good lead.

[00:08:36] So so look, I'm interested in exploring that a bit further.

[00:08:40] But I also wanted to see if we can squeeze in this next segment about also what

[00:08:45] happened after the breakup too because obviously, you know, I've got stuff to talk about from my perspective.

[00:08:50] But you lived, you had your own thing going on as well.

[00:08:53] So like that, I'm just going to set that up and let you run with it.

[00:08:56] However you wish.

[00:08:57] Oh, thank you.

[00:08:58] Does that mean you're running?

[00:09:00] Well, uh, over is just reflecting son.

[00:09:04] Okay.

[00:09:04] When we young and fit and enthusiastic, we have expectations that life

[00:09:11] is going to be a bunch of flowers, bowl of cherries forever.

[00:09:15] Yeah, we're special too, right?

[00:09:17] Oh, well, wife's going to treat me well.

[00:09:19] Well, we are special.

[00:09:20] Every individual in the planet is special and one way or another.

[00:09:24] Sure.

[00:09:24] That's a different way of looking at the ego, I guess.

[00:09:27] Yes.

[00:09:27] And in the list, of course, everything is structured around ego.

[00:09:32] The east has a completely different way of looking at things.

[00:09:36] I mean, there's this corruption and beauty everywhere.

[00:09:39] It's just how to find the latter.

[00:09:42] And then there is to find the former.

[00:09:44] Okay, so we young Mary couple with children we definitely wanted.

[00:09:50] And dealing with these, ladies said it.

[00:09:53] Well, but the possible exception of you.

[00:09:58] I felt like I feel like we're in the next one time.

[00:10:01] But I'm all right.

[00:10:02] You set yourself up for that.

[00:10:03] So yeah, okay, you know what we're going to do.

[00:10:07] It's a difficult time for young people because no one has ever trained them in this process.

[00:10:14] You just jump in and you have to somehow another find your way out of their deep into the swimming pool.

[00:10:21] And so there are inevitable tensions as there are in every relationship.

[00:10:25] We didn't know because we were so busy, you know, living the 60s dream or mythology, if you like,

[00:10:34] that it takes a toll on individuals.

[00:10:38] And if you have flaws in your character stemming from your background, they get magnified.

[00:10:45] I agree with that.

[00:10:46] Yes, absolutely.

[00:10:48] So you mother and I love each other very much.

[00:10:51] Sorry, just on that there's an expression that I remember hearing that, you know, when you squeeze an orange,

[00:10:55] what's inside comes out.

[00:10:57] Yeah, that sort of thing.

[00:10:59] Pressure on something, you know, that's when it shows up.

[00:11:02] You think you got it together until you've applied pressure.

[00:11:04] It's a bit of an extreme example, but I take your point.

[00:11:09] And we found that faults in our upbringing, which weren't necessarily of our making,

[00:11:19] they were to do with the way our parents treated each other and consequently the children,

[00:11:25] made our relationship untenable.

[00:11:27] And the thinking of parting was such a frightening experience.

[00:11:33] Yeah, I think it is for everyone when you've invested into this relationship,

[00:11:37] thinking, yep, this makes sense.

[00:11:39] I played the field.

[00:11:39] This is the person I'm going to have kids and we did all this responsibility.

[00:11:43] We're going to make the lock it all down, and then suddenly it doesn't look like it's going to work.

[00:11:48] Wow, it's confronting.

[00:11:49] And you think it's the circumstances.

[00:11:51] You know, the baby's crying can be over night with their teeth and so forth.

[00:11:54] So, stresses in how they evolve and where they come from happenable of us different times for different reasons.

[00:12:00] But one thing I wanted to touch on before I go any further is the role of grandparents.

[00:12:06] Now, we lived in a different city to both sets of grandparents, your mother's parents and my parents.

[00:12:13] And my parents being old fashioned drove all the way down from Auckland to Wellington.

[00:12:18] Said nine hours or something?

[00:12:20] Oh, it's nine hours.

[00:12:22] And it's a, well, those days it wasn't.

[00:12:24] I do a strive and they would stay elsewhere because it wasn't enough room in the place where we lived and why we knew him out.

[00:12:32] And they regarded you, you children as is very, very special and played with you and gave you little treats that young parents hate like.

[00:12:43] Give me the sugar stuff.

[00:12:44] Of course, you could give them grandchildren.

[00:12:47] They grandchildren.

[00:12:48] They grandchildren love it.

[00:12:50] And the parents go, oh my god another sleep.

[00:12:53] It is a privilege.

[00:12:54] It's a grandparent privilege, no doubt.

[00:12:56] It is.

[00:12:58] And your mother's parents had a different structure.

[00:13:00] We hardly saw them and however, your maternal grandmother came down to be with us when you were born, which was a great thing.

[00:13:11] I mean, it kiddie was a lovely lovely woman.

[00:13:15] But there's a term in psychology called imprinting and right imprinting is about the things you absorb from your environment.

[00:13:27] It particularly when you're young from your family who are you primary connections.

[00:13:33] And they stamp you as being part of that cultural heritage.

[00:13:38] Part of that behavioral mechanism, you become adjusted to the foods that they give you.

[00:13:44] And so that they show us as nature.

[00:13:46] Yeah, it shapes your dietary preferences and everything.

[00:13:50] It's so powerful.

[00:13:52] And of course when we're young, we don't even understand that that process is operating.

[00:13:57] It's only later when you bump into people from a different social, not necessarily cultural, but social and or cultural background,

[00:14:05] you realize that what they love from home is completely different from what you love from home.

[00:14:11] And if you're able to share it with each other, you broaden the range of experience for everyone totally.

[00:14:18] So how does that relate to the grandparents coming down?

[00:14:21] The grandparents are very important part of it because the migrant parents cooked the foods that I love.

[00:14:27] Right, okay.

[00:14:29] Also my parents are a big part of one set of young parents.

[00:14:33] And of course your mother's parents cooked the foods that they loved and we came from completely different food heritage in backgrounds,

[00:14:43] although we were white Caucasians, etc.

[00:14:46] Well, some Mediterranean, some morphemine and Anglo-Side.

[00:14:50] Yeah, but just skipping forward in time, you talked to us about the breakup.

[00:14:57] And it really was a consequence of things which we didn't understand, which it came from different family backgrounds.

[00:15:06] And the real trigger had nothing to do with infidelity or anything like that.

[00:15:10] It was just that we got to a point where we loved our children, we loved the concept of marriage, but we couldn't stand each other.

[00:15:20] Yeah, well I don't think as I'm common unfortunately, it's, and you know there's also a growth part.

[00:15:25] I guess, aspect to this isn't there that you, you had this.

[00:15:30] So can I just add one thing on this?

[00:15:31] Just sure, sure.

[00:15:32] Sure, sure.

[00:15:32] I think of just by telling me that.

[00:15:34] I was changing something the other day and this analogy keeps coming back round too.

[00:15:38] You know, if you've got a seed right, all the potential is in this seed, this oak tree.

[00:15:43] Absolutely.

[00:15:44] And if you put it into the ground and you're watering, it's nice food all soiled and you water it properly and the sun's there and you're in the nature.

[00:15:50] Yes, yep, you nurture it or nature nurtures it and it grows so that's full of extent to this beautiful strong tree that gives you shade and it's just resplendant with all its color and leaves.

[00:16:02] But if you miss some of that, if you doesn't get water if there's a drought on, if it's another tree and crochying it's shade, if there's all these other, you know the sun's not out there's much the tree is stunted in the city.

[00:16:14] Yeah, it's literally to fully, yes, thrive.

[00:16:16] Excellent metaphor, son.

[00:16:17] Yeah, and I think it relates to us as children and some of the, I've met some really well grounded individuals who have had great high value relationships with people and chosen great partners and they've stayed together.

[00:16:29] And I've kind of, done a bit of a, a bit of a study from a far going, how they held it you worked this out then I looked at their lineage and I looked at their upbringing and I looked at the love and the stability and all these other things.

[00:16:41] And I thought, wow, there's no coincidence is there that when you have all the right ingredients you get the full potential of that individual and it I'm not saying things are perfect.

[00:16:52] But they certainly optimize themselves.

[00:16:55] You're correct.

[00:16:57] And you brought up a thought which I didn't believe in at all with my, my Western upbringing and that's a range of marriages and the older I've grown and the more cultural content.

[00:17:11] I've had, you know, with social frameworks which are completely different to it.

[00:17:18] Our judo Christian one.

[00:17:20] The more I feel I say is actually something I've done.

[00:17:23] I'm married to a range of marriages.

[00:17:26] Isn't that funny because that's that topics come up with mum getting this lovely young glasses number for me and I'm like,

[00:17:33] Mum, are you trying to arrange a relationship because I haven't done too well on my own?

[00:17:38] Maybe there is something to it.

[00:17:39] I'm up.

[00:17:41] Well, I mean, your mother picked a real monkey there.

[00:17:46] Anyway, not going to go down there with Albert.

[00:17:49] But so I agree with you.

[00:17:50] I guess I'm just aligning the to the fact that I think many of us are playing out this dysfunction that we don't even know we have.

[00:17:57] Yes, we get into relationships and get intense kids are added.

[00:18:00] Yes, it gets more intense.

[00:18:02] The craves and the crevices start to show.

[00:18:04] We don't even know we're acting out of emotion and then suddenly it all falls apart.

[00:18:10] And we don't even know why, but we just think it's the other person's fault for some reason.

[00:18:15] Oh, it's usually us.

[00:18:16] Yeah, it's a shared responsibility at all.

[00:18:19] It's a show.

[00:18:20] You don't cognise it consciously at the time.

[00:18:24] And I'll tell you one other thing, son.

[00:18:26] Sure.

[00:18:27] Because of the way my father treated my mother and things got pretty intense between

[00:18:33] your mother and me, there is no way that I would ever allow myself to put a hand on her.

[00:18:41] And that's why I am so passionately against domestic violence.

[00:18:47] So just before we round around the segment dead,

[00:18:51] obviously things didn't continue.

[00:18:54] I think you married eight years or something from memory.

[00:18:57] Yes.

[00:18:57] And I was three, I think when you broke up, Damien was just a born, I'll tell you my brother was just born.

[00:19:04] And so then obviously there's a whole change of scenario from there.

[00:19:09] Very much, just lead me into that next part of the transition for you.

[00:19:13] What was that like for you?

[00:19:15] Incredibly painful.

[00:19:17] I won't begin to go into it.

[00:19:20] Like a soldier coming back from the war who just doesn't want to talk about it.

[00:19:24] Because of the intensity of the pain.

[00:19:27] It's so happened I went looking for a new job because the way the marriage was falling apart impacted upon my ability to do my work with the large corporation that I was with.

[00:19:39] And so I got this job and it turned out to be with a major newsy and company,

[00:19:44] but it was in a different part of the country.

[00:19:48] Right.

[00:19:49] And I took it because you know, I had the skill set and I moved away,

[00:19:53] which further distance me from my about to be ex-wife and my three lovely children.

[00:20:03] So I resonate, and I think one of the reasons I'm so passionate about doing this with your dad is you've helped me through a lot of hard times

[00:20:10] and you've shared with me many of your hard times.

[00:20:13] We've been very frank with each other and we know that many other men and fathers have been through similar experiences

[00:20:21] and it doesn't talk about that much, but it is a silent pain that I've certainly felt like a knife in the guts many times.

[00:20:30] Just going to...

[00:20:30] That's a good deal.

[00:20:33] Feeling guilty, missing out, feeling cut off, not knowing how to approach doing something, not being right, then doing the wrong thing, making mistake.

[00:20:45] There's just some time to tell you how we learn.

[00:20:47] Even the people who are wildly successful, so I would also like to say that I made mistakes.

[00:20:53] Yeah.

[00:20:54] That's a learning, definitely a journey.

[00:20:56] Well, I do want to...

[00:20:58] I do want to flip it a little bit lighten up a little bit and talk about some of what I experience as I got older while you were more of a free-willing divorce dad.

[00:21:11] Which by the way, I've been for the last 50 years.

[00:21:14] That's right, ladies.

[00:21:17] That's right, 80 year old, single ladies, sell the single ladies.

[00:21:21] Right.

[00:21:21] Only the rich single ladies and you've got to be over 65.

[00:21:25] I'm not in a pit of failure.

[00:21:27] That's right, yeah, I was 65.

[00:21:28] That's the floor.

[00:21:30] All right, let's move on.

[00:21:32] The meat in him pot.

[00:21:34] I was young at the time.

[00:21:38] You were young.

[00:21:40] Yeah, we're all young.

[00:21:40] And I think I mentioned a couple of episodes ago that it wasn't until I was of an age where my son was the age I was when you guys broke up.

[00:21:51] I think it was three that I realized the impact that it probably had on me.

[00:21:56] You took about imprint before, the imprint that it had on me and probably shaped me as an individual thereafter.

[00:22:04] And look, I've done a bunch of work in that area.

[00:22:08] There's many people have to do.

[00:22:09] This is part of that work too.

[00:22:10] They reconnection and the conversations with you and others.

[00:22:15] But I wanted to sort of touch on.

[00:22:18] And maybe I'm jumping forward a little bit here.

[00:22:21] But I mentioned again also previously that I've worked with you in various ventures.

[00:22:25] You know, so mum would take us down to the chicken barrel where you had your own little business down there.

[00:22:30] I hope at the 24 hour cafe at K Road.

[00:22:35] I remember cleaning nicotine stains off the pub ceiling at the glue pot when you first took that over, which is the worst job in the world by the way.

[00:22:41] I've been lucky people don't have to do that anymore, but I couldn't believe there was like half an inch thick of nicotine on the ceiling.

[00:22:47] How does that even?

[00:22:48] Why do you think I told you to do it?

[00:22:50] Yeah, she's the shitest job dad.

[00:22:53] Oh my god.

[00:22:56] Some people started from the bottom.

[00:22:57] I started from the top, but I was having to be up at a ladder on the roof clean nicotine stains.

[00:23:03] I don't know if that is the top or whatever.

[00:23:06] Anyway, so you were managing this pub called the glue pot and you had had a bit of success in that area.

[00:23:14] You know, I kind of looked up to you in that regard and it wasn't too far away from where we lived.

[00:23:19] So to some degree, the circle was silent and closed a little bit for me personally.

[00:23:25] And I didn't know I was going to end up doing hospitality at that stage.

[00:23:28] I was just making it extra coin and you know being, you know, it was good having you around because you, yeah, you tell me off sometimes or you're directly me or you do whatever.

[00:23:37] But I needed that, you know, I'm a young boy, I needing some direction.

[00:23:43] Yeah, and there's a limit.

[00:23:45] I mean, your mother worked hard and she did a good job, but there's a limit to how one parent can handle, especially a mother handling a teenage boy who's rebellious.

[00:23:57] That's right. It's so hard for a mother to be mother and dad.

[00:24:01] I mean, I respect the single moms who do that.

[00:24:05] I mean, power to you. It's hard enough being a single mother to a young, to a female, but to a boy who's reaching puberty and then starting to push the boundaries who needs some guardrails in.

[00:24:19] The mother unfortunately, I mean, I'm trying everything, you know, there was, there was all sorts of different punishments, but into the day I just would do it.

[00:24:28] Yeah, I'm actually deserved by the way.

[00:24:30] Yeah, I really, I really deserved. I don't deny it, you know? And so, so I guess where I'm getting to is is I, I enjoyed that time working with you.

[00:24:41] I enjoyed making money and eventually we're, and giving them mates feed free drinks in my talk.

[00:24:48] Yeah, yeah, the free drinks. Well, look, I learned the hard way.

[00:24:51] I ended up running a stock control company right to avoid people doing that future.

[00:24:56] The irony is, is thick. But I did end up, personally, I found starting to run away from responsibility, you know, and not just because I was a normal teenage boy, because I didn't have sort of a rock solid guidance.

[00:25:17] Yeah, we talked about that tree analogy as I was a bit earlier. I thought that having fun and partying and to some degree pushing all the boundaries was, that was my destiny, right?

[00:25:32] Just, I don't even think I would live past us a certain age.

[00:25:34] I just said that sounds very bad example.

[00:25:36] I don't know if you set the example, I just think I was unchecked and it was at that point I was probably just running from a lot of things.

[00:25:47] Yeah, it's just very important with this, un-chickening.

[00:25:52] And this is where the father son balance, you know, on a continuous basis as was an interrupted basis.

[00:26:00] So I couldn't check you where you needed to be checked. It's so important because teenage boys learning to, you know, that they're strong, they're decalpable and they're hormonal and so forth.

[00:26:16] And they're taller than their mum's too, right?

[00:26:18] Exactly.

[00:26:19] And then they need to be checked. And that's where a father, a benevolent father figure comes up and is appropriate.

[00:26:28] And also, you know, that comes, that feeling that this guy stronger than me. So he could take me down or when he's angry, he could hurt me.

[00:26:38] You know, like that precisely, which was a good lesson for life, right?

[00:26:42] Because that's what's going to happen out there in the sporting field or the pub if you say something rude or disrespectful.

[00:26:49] You're going to get, you're going to get an in hard way.

[00:26:52] Oh yes.

[00:26:52] So I, at least you're dead, you're dead, run kingpun.

[00:26:56] Well that's right, won't you kingpun?

[00:26:58] Even though you may feel like that's right.

[00:27:01] And generally it will be to try and make sure you know, never do that again for your own good.

[00:27:07] Precisely.

[00:27:07] So we need that hard line as young men.

[00:27:11] We need to know where the boundaries are.

[00:27:14] Sometimes it can change the word if you wouldn't mind so on.

[00:27:21] We all need, as young men, that firm line.

[00:27:25] It doesn't have to be hard, but it has to be firm.

[00:27:29] For guidance.

[00:27:31] Hmm. Yeah, I like that.

[00:27:33] So look, I, mum did a great job. I've taken a head off to mum.

[00:27:37] But I was largely uncontrollable.

[00:27:40] I would sneak out. I would go get into nightclubs.

[00:27:44] I would do walls, get up. So also to mischief.

[00:27:48] I was very lucky that I, yes, I skirted around getting into more trouble than I did.

[00:27:52] Or, but I did get into a bit of trouble and I had some friends.

[00:27:55] I got an even more trouble at the time.

[00:27:57] And once one of the reasons I felt I needed to leave New Zealand, not because they were

[00:28:01] didn't welcome me there, but I didn't see a bright future the way things

[00:28:07] changed.

[00:28:08] I was in the circle, and I guess, you know, I wanted to, to some degree reinvent myself.

[00:28:14] More of us are lost than our stable.

[00:28:18] It's only when you come from a very stable family background.

[00:28:22] And you've got a lineage that you respect and honour.

[00:28:27] And you've been consistently nurtured as opposed to being a product of a broken marriage.

[00:28:34] That you can be one of those rare people who goes through life.

[00:28:40] And happiness and fulfillment.

[00:28:43] Yeah. It's more the exception than the rule unfortunately,

[00:28:46] and I think part of what we're trying to do here outside of share some stories have a laugh.

[00:28:50] You know, maybe share some lessons is to potentially get conversations going that fills in

[00:28:57] some of those gaps that were created as all of us came through with our various

[00:29:03] disfunctions and traumas and what have you.

[00:29:06] So I look back in a laughed out and I'm glad I'm stable in my life as good and we've got

[00:29:11] a good relationship and I've got four beautiful kids and a great relationship with my parents

[00:29:15] and my sister and brother and all that.

[00:29:18] You know, I've managed to make a success of it, but while it was wobbly there for a while.

[00:29:25] And I like to be able to laugh about it, but there were some dicey times with things

[00:29:30] that could have gone different way.

[00:29:32] The beauty of what we're doing is again to quote Mike and the mechanics is we're doing it

[00:29:39] in the living years.

[00:29:41] So we've got an opportunity as father and son to say,

[00:29:45] Sheddo wasn't perfect but he was my sister circumstances.

[00:29:49] Oh well, you know, the percentage of that which interacted on me was such and such

[00:29:55] and these my sister circumstances.

[00:29:56] And we can come together and love.

[00:30:01] Yeah, well that was not the fun little trip to home in Marine Lane.

[00:30:05] I'm speaking a luncheon.

[00:30:07] I've got to go.

[00:30:09] You've got to go and look after your mother actually.

[00:30:13] I've got to go look after my mom going to take my mom out with her dogs.

[00:30:15] So hey, look has been nice chatting.

[00:30:18] I'm going to, we still got an email from dad section coming up which I'm really looking

[00:30:22] for to.

[00:30:23] And next episode is going to be the end of season one and I would really like with

[00:30:31] your permission to touch on and how we do it.

[00:30:34] I'm not sure, but touch on granddad's later years.

[00:30:39] Are you cool with that?

[00:30:41] Yeah, I really need to tell you about that son.

[00:30:50] That will certainly an interesting podcast dad highs and lows.

[00:30:54] You know, we had, we had some lunch together.

[00:30:59] Yeah, careful.

[00:30:59] What did you say son?

[00:31:02] We, yeah, you're right there.

[00:31:03] I shouldn't really go any further than that.

[00:31:05] I'm sure that's going to come back to haunt me.

[00:31:07] And also just to really to explore more about that whole separation and the pain involved

[00:31:16] in that and the lessons that come from that is always plain and separation.

[00:31:21] There is no matter what kind of this.

[00:31:24] Yeah, yeah, there is.

[00:31:27] And so look, we've got another episode coming up to finish the season off where I'd

[00:31:32] like to explore a bit more around, around granddad and him getting older and how

[00:31:39] that affected you and things.

[00:31:41] But we can do that next episode.

[00:31:43] For now though, we've got emails from dad.

[00:31:47] Oh wow, the best part of the show.

[00:31:52] Well, we've got emails for dad.

[00:31:56] Now for this one, I went through the archives and I still got about 50 odd ones outside

[00:32:03] of the few hundred that have come in since I put those into a folder.

[00:32:07] And I thought, you know, we've gone down a track of some poems you've done and we've

[00:32:11] talked about some songs.

[00:32:12] It's been very artistic, right?

[00:32:14] Which makes us probably see on more artistic than we actually are.

[00:32:16] I'm very artistic darling.

[00:32:19] Yeah, so I think got the accent down to you.

[00:32:23] But this one, I actually laughed out loud when I read it out.

[00:32:26] You know, maybe just time, keep it a little larger than that.

[00:32:29] Just do something a little bit more,

[00:32:33] for the frivolous.

[00:32:35] And so I'm going to share, I'm just going to bring it up on screen now.

[00:32:41] I'm going to share the, the Joker sent to you.

[00:32:47] There's always pain in the impression.

[00:32:49] Remember it.

[00:32:50] No matter what I'm old and useless as you know,

[00:32:55] not saying that.

[00:32:56] I wasn't judging you.

[00:32:58] I sometimes like the fact that when you send emails and I probably don't do it enough and

[00:33:01] return to be honest, that sometimes it's just a funny thing that you're seeing and you flick it off.

[00:33:05] And then it's short, which is the best for me.

[00:33:08] So I'll leave this one to you.

[00:33:10] Try to do it justice.

[00:33:12] Thank you, sir.

[00:33:13] It's called husband's call.

[00:33:16] And if there are any ladies listening, we'd love you.

[00:33:19] This is not intended to be disrespectful.

[00:33:22] No, not at all we'd never do that.

[00:33:24] Honey, it's me, my old voice, talking to be my partner.

[00:33:28] I don't want to align me, but I was hit by a car as I was leaving the office.

[00:33:32] Paula brought me to the hospital.

[00:33:34] They've checked me over and have done some tests in some x-rays.

[00:33:38] The bloat of my head was severe.

[00:33:41] Fortunately, it did not pause any serious internal injury.

[00:33:46] However, I have three broken ribs, a compound fracture in the left leg,

[00:33:51] and they think they may have to impute it my right foot.

[00:33:55] Wife's response?

[00:33:57] Who is Paula?

[00:33:59] And if you find that hard to believe you've never been married.

[00:34:04] So I read it and I was like, I was just going then,

[00:34:09] who was Paula?

[00:34:10] It actually just speaks to a truth that the other citizen name mentioned that is potential.

[00:34:16] And maybe the guys are the same, are we the same?

[00:34:19] I'm ladies tell us.

[00:34:20] No, no, we're in the end of Toolbike comparison.

[00:34:24] Right, right.

[00:34:25] Where's that threat coming from?

[00:34:28] So look, I thought that was just a little bit of fun.

[00:34:30] It doesn't all have to be high-falutin' arts and craft.

[00:34:34] This was just a good honest choke with, which yes, admittedly,

[00:34:39] and it'll resonate with so many men.

[00:34:42] I could tell you that.

[00:34:43] Yeah, so who's poor?

[00:34:44] Forget the man-protated foot.

[00:34:47] Who's that woman, that you were?

[00:34:49] Oh man, I mean, well look, I've got heaps more emails to go through.

[00:34:53] So we're going to keep that one going.

[00:34:55] But we're going to wrap this up.

[00:34:56] We've had a really good chat.

[00:34:57] And next episode is episode 12,

[00:35:00] which is our final episode for the season.

[00:35:03] We'll just have a short break.

[00:35:06] And then we're going to pick up, and we're going to be picking up

[00:35:08] and doing more topic-based podcasts.

[00:35:10] But in terms of next episode, Dad, are you happy

[00:35:13] to sort of talk to your dad getting older

[00:35:16] and some of the struggles?

[00:35:18] Of course.

[00:35:19] You had.

[00:35:19] But it senses 12th and it's the end of the series.

[00:35:24] I think we should both stand in our independent homes.

[00:35:27] So we're going to start and make it work.

[00:35:28] We're going to deliver it.

[00:35:30] And that's it for the lady.

[00:35:33] That's me, sis.

[00:35:34] Well, I've been actually working on myself a little bit there,

[00:35:38] so I'm not totally uncomfortable with that, Jim.

[00:35:42] Maybe it is just another thing about just drop the,

[00:35:45] you know, lose the fear.

[00:35:47] Doesn't matter anymore.

[00:35:48] I will all born naked when I-

[00:35:50] In my case, it doesn't matter anymore.

[00:35:53] No, I don't know if we can do it.

[00:35:55] But okay, fair suggestion.

[00:35:57] I'm glad you're thinking outside the box.

[00:36:00] We were talking about something humorous, you know?

[00:36:04] Yes, we were.

[00:36:05] And it's better to think outside the box than not be thinking inside a box, right?

[00:36:09] I guess we're careful.

[00:36:11] We were going with that terminology.

[00:36:13] No, I was talking about passing on.

[00:36:16] Because we're talking about granted.

[00:36:17] So next episode, let's do that.

[00:36:20] Let's not so much tie-bower out.

[00:36:21] Because I think we're going to revisit a lot of this material,

[00:36:24] and a lot of the stories.

[00:36:25] And there we can go-there's so many more things to talk about.

[00:36:27] I think what we've done just in the last 12 episodes is just

[00:36:30] just paying a bit of an art story arc around your life.

[00:36:33] So people get to know you a bit, they get a little bit of a glimpse of me.

[00:36:36] Our lives, some-

[00:36:37] Our lives.

[00:36:38] But the whole purpose of this podcast has been for us to talk

[00:36:42] honestly about everything, the heritage and how we have

[00:36:46] related positively and negatively.

[00:36:49] Yep.

[00:36:49] Be full right-day.

[00:36:51] And it's very, very important.

[00:36:52] And before I die too, because you never know, right?

[00:36:55] I could be a bye-buster one.

[00:36:56] Well, I keep wishing for that, but never mind.

[00:36:59] Well, it's been fun and a big one next one.

[00:37:03] So I'll see you soon and take care.

[00:37:06] Same to you.

[00:37:07] Don't well love.