Ep12: Watch Him Burn

[00:00:01] The meat in Him podcast.

[00:00:07] So welcome back to the Meamp podcast, candid conversations between me and my dad about

[00:00:13] manhood, fatherhood and all manner of things Dad, we've covered a lot of ground over

[00:00:17] the last 11 or so episodes, Emily.

[00:00:19] Oh we haven't, dude son.

[00:00:21] But I feel like we just kind of getting started at it.

[00:00:24] That's just the surface really.

[00:00:25] Red at the top of the iceberg.

[00:00:28] So much more underneath.

[00:00:29] Oh yes.

[00:00:30] Oh yes.

[00:00:31] So here we've managed to actually get 11 episodes recorded, we're on Episode 12.

[00:00:36] This is what we're calling the last episode of Season 1 and we may end up just whipping out

[00:00:41] on the season 1.

[00:00:41] Oh we're seeing, oh my god.

[00:00:42] No it's not the end.

[00:00:44] I'm not looking forward to the end.

[00:00:46] No don't worry dad.

[00:00:48] It's only the end of the first season and the next season we're going to change it up and

[00:00:52] I'll explain there a little sicker.

[00:00:53] Oh, a new life thank God.

[00:00:54] Yeah, but I want to congratulate you.

[00:00:56] Thank you for living this long.

[00:00:59] I was a bit worried there in Episode 7.

[00:01:02] I was like he's looking a bit so...

[00:01:04] So was I.

[00:01:07] You're hanging there and we made it all the way through.

[00:01:10] So now we just don't have any problems on this episode because I really want to finish

[00:01:14] it with you.

[00:01:16] And then we can sort of finish the story, I guess, of your upbringing and your father.

[00:01:24] And I'll intertwine some stuff in that as well if that's all right with you.

[00:01:27] But what I'm really interested in in this episode is because I know grand it ended up,

[00:01:33] he got old, he got a capacity that he needed care and you took him in.

[00:01:38] And I don't know a lot about that because I was living a very busy life with young kids

[00:01:42] and I've caught up with you guys occasionally but we've never really explored it.

[00:01:47] I'm happy to tell you son.

[00:01:49] It wasn't.

[00:01:52] I did my duty as any good, only son, only child would do.

[00:01:59] I had to do my duty.

[00:02:01] It's a proper thing.

[00:02:03] Regardless of whether I wanted to do that or not, it just had to do it.

[00:02:06] Well I appreciate that and I know that we've chatted a little bit about this and

[00:02:11] it's not an easy topic and I'm sure there's listeners out there who have lost

[00:02:15] loved ones and parents and others around them.

[00:02:18] People are care about it's never easy talking about these sort of things but from my perspective

[00:02:24] and we're not going to go in too deep right now but for most victims of dead you joke around,

[00:02:30] you know, you're in the drop-off zone, what have you?

[00:02:32] I mean hell, I thought you the way you're living your life.

[00:02:36] I thought you're in the drop-off zone like 20 years ago, you're like you've,

[00:02:39] you've run right past the drop-off zone up into the stand.

[00:02:42] Me too and all my doctors.

[00:02:44] Everyone's am I heist but it's close son and I don't have any issues with mortality.

[00:02:52] I never have had, yeah, we spoke about that.

[00:02:55] We'll use spoke about that at one point.

[00:02:58] So I think it's a really important and kind of special topic for me to be honest with you because

[00:03:05] at some point I'm going to be looking at this right?

[00:03:07] I really care for you and we've been doing this a because we want to do something together

[00:03:13] but b also because we want to share stories for, you know, my kids and other kids.

[00:03:18] So they're not lost forever.

[00:03:20] So they're not lost and people can understand not just you but me as well and then

[00:03:24] secondly to that or you know, indirectly from that is also other people who have had similar

[00:03:30] experiences and particularly men but also women, some of the feedback from women has been

[00:03:35] really interesting dad like they're thinking about their fathers you know and I didn't expect

[00:03:40] that. I didn't expect women to be so interested in what we're doing.

[00:03:44] I thought it would be a man to be the bloke who have had kids or maybe had a issue with their

[00:03:47] dad but no son I keep telling you women are far more sensitive than men.

[00:03:53] They pick up on all sorts of things.

[00:03:55] Maybe they let's just like hearing a bit of real talk.

[00:03:58] I'm they do I look I got to tell you that you can say that that that sounds depreciating.

[00:04:02] Well real talk between men you know because often in my day very very sensitive creatures we

[00:04:08] make fun of them as I know they make fun of us not definitely and it's all good nature.

[00:04:14] Yeah well well I think where I was going with that is that we are having conversations

[00:04:20] that are important and meaningful and we're doing it for ourselves and for others and

[00:04:25] and what a way to finish off this particular series then what bit what a better way to then to

[00:04:31] talk about some of the challenges that come when you do have to face you know the end of the runway

[00:04:36] and it's not just the you know the person facing it who can see that you know the you know

[00:04:42] the end it's 510 20 I don't know I kind of imagine what it'd be like to go I mean if something

[00:04:47] happened suddenly to me you know I kind of much about it or but it actually go hang on well I'm

[00:04:52] actually 80 and I probably won't live past 90 so it max I've got 10 years but that's I can't

[00:04:59] wrap my head around what that feels like so I mean into some degree wouldn't mind exploring

[00:05:03] that as well if that's not too morbid nothing's morbid son is it's unreal yeah and it's not the

[00:05:10] end of the runway you have to worry about it's the pilot oh he's going to take off and saw

[00:05:15] to another plane oh yeah yeah we can crash and burn oh come on Sally you can land this

[00:05:23] in the Hudson you got this all right let's start the last bit last page of the first chapter shall we

[00:05:34] isn't he the meat in him what class so I don't know really how best to start this to be honest dad

[00:05:43] so I might throw it to you because you experienced stuff with your dad getting frail getting ill

[00:05:49] and passing that I really don't know much about but I would love to I'd love to know more

[00:05:54] sure son the parameters are very important I'm the only child so there was no other and I was

[00:06:04] brought up in a traditional sense we you look after your own and I've now reached the really funny

[00:06:12] point where I'm the silver back the oldest living human being in our family line on both sides

[00:06:24] you do have long arms I wonder what oh yeah yeah yeah and the knuckles strike along the ground

[00:06:30] yeah thank you son I don't know about the back I haven't ever had the pleasure of seeing

[00:06:35] your silver back I want it really you know that used to be black here now it's silver

[00:06:41] I saw it aggression to the house and he's exactly oh my god I didn't expect to start out

[00:06:48] but so but I keep I take your point that the oldest the single you know the old only child the

[00:06:57] eldest male member I take I get it it's a responsibility we need describe it in words it sounds

[00:07:03] like it's it's something important or you know something that you should strive towards as an

[00:07:10] egotistical achievement it's just something that happens and you know one day you're looking

[00:07:17] at the sun and the flowers and the next day you look in the mirror and you think fuck I met oh

[00:07:26] it's it's kind of like that wow so the sad thing about it is I've had to rearrange my behavior

[00:07:33] and appear responsible to my grandchildren it to grow up it was sitting there as I'm supposed to

[00:07:42] growing out and then they got off I'm growing in you know you're losing weight yeah but you know

[00:07:50] I've lost both of my parents fortunately all of my family is intact and oh god there is nothing

[00:07:58] more painful for any human being than to lose a child I agree with that oh god yeah it makes

[00:08:06] it's hard but it makes sense when your parents go or an elderly relative goes I don't know how

[00:08:12] one would would cope with it you know being someone younger it's a child particularly it's yeah

[00:08:17] I feel for all those people who've been in the position of course me a cute pain I don't think

[00:08:25] it ever let that go you just yeah there would be something it was with you forever anyway my

[00:08:31] mom died earlier than my dad she had pancreatic cancer which hadn't mean diagnosed properly but

[00:08:39] of that was due to my dad turning her that pain was irrelevant wow another grudge I held against him

[00:08:47] wow okay I didn't know that so he basically played it down or something that he didn't

[00:08:53] played it down I mean I was there as she was in an issue of screaming pain yeah

[00:09:01] well and but no I'm she got hospital to late so bear my mum well

[00:09:12] maturely than she'll have been the case so there was just the old man hanging out

[00:09:18] and they're all home doing his you know this is my castle and Jo and I by that stage had

[00:09:25] moved to Melbourne for economic reasons yeah are you serving them twice a week there's any

[00:09:33] beautiful sunwood did you notice how he changed like obviously he was even though he was a bit of

[00:09:40] a grumpy old crow at you know and he obviously didn't treat granola's a crow it's a mutsian

[00:09:46] dumbation I get it but you know and that gentleman for the city I've been corrected I stand corrected

[00:09:51] dumbation but he you don't know what you got till it's gone right like did it did you notice I mean

[00:09:57] you obviously on the phone so it's hard to get the full impact but did you see him at market change?

[00:10:03] Oh yes of course he changed I mean German eyes to fly back she got them well with both of my

[00:10:10] parents very well actually they loved her and we flew back from mum's funeral we organized

[00:10:15] we did everything as you do I'm repeating myself but this only child thing

[00:10:26] gives you a level of responsibility that you can't share with anyone else you have to discharge yourself

[00:10:33] I totally get a dead I've already I've got a WhatsApp group with my brother and sister

[00:10:38] and not saying we need to talk about that right now with regards to you and mum but I think part of

[00:10:45] the position of us being able to communicate regularly and talk about trips we're taking or

[00:10:49] you're birthday and all the rest of it has been to actually at some point be I would communicate

[00:10:54] amongst each other and distribute some of the responsibilities or whatever it comes up so to not have

[00:10:59] that I guess it's all on your shoulders. Was it the important thing with regard to youth free children

[00:11:08] is to share the love now mine was one on one the love couldn't be shared with anyone else

[00:11:17] and I loved my dad despite his faults because he was my dad but I didn't know how much damage

[00:11:29] his treatment of my mother had done to me psychologically until I had to go out with a peer group

[00:11:39] that's selling with teenagers and them with work colleagues and so forth so I had to do a lot of work

[00:11:47] and I'm went down the phone after my auntie who was the last in my mother's

[00:11:55] sisters and brothers line because my mother had passed and my auntie Chrissy and my dad

[00:12:04] thought like a cat and dog and the other guy I thought oh yeah I mean she was a hospital

[00:12:10] my trainer she was the old school hospital my trainer. Yes she was she was pretty hard

[00:12:13] call from what I remember. Yes she was high call but she's suffering with age and she said to me

[00:12:23] bring up see how she wants she said Matthew which is my given name. He further's not doing

[00:12:33] too well okay he's not coping. How long after that was I was passing with that?

[00:12:41] Oh go do it was 10 years after wow so he got by for as long as I'm 15 years after at least

[00:12:48] yeah I don't know I guess I I don't know what I was doing but my head was probably

[00:12:53] up my button just running around busy with other stuff so that seemed like that seems like a long

[00:12:58] time. Oh you were having lunch regular basis. I shouldn't I knew I shouldn't have said that

[00:13:05] you were going to that's that. Oh god okay yeah but you know I was going to say ask but I

[00:13:11] have trying to apply. So anyway let me interrupt. Yes so I kept in regular contact with them

[00:13:18] who we were living in Melbourne of course he was living in my hometown of Auckland and one day

[00:13:23] it was chatting to him and how I did and I said dead if we were living in Auckland we'd

[00:13:32] have you living with us but that's impossible because we live in Melbourne and you wouldn't want

[00:13:40] to come to Melbourne what do you want to say yes. Wow just jumped at it. Oh no I went oh shit.

[00:13:47] You hadn't been to the cell for that long? No I was not. Wow so I told Jo and she said fair enough

[00:13:54] so we went over there with who is obviously really lonely. Oh yeah he was. He needed family and

[00:13:58] we packed him up and all the family stuff and we managed to get there in time to stop and throwing

[00:14:04] valuable things as part of my heritage you know my mother and so forth. She was so good at

[00:14:14] her job as a cutter in a address making production warehouse as opposed to a fashion warehouse

[00:14:23] that I never knew she was offered the job in London to travel the world for all expenses paid

[00:14:28] you told me that story. Yeah I have I I it was actually disposing of the you know like burning

[00:14:36] it throwing it out. Oh he was throwing everything out and I arrived there in time to stop the

[00:14:42] last quarter of it going. I have no idea what they are other 75 positions and only son only sibling

[00:14:51] well I only child I should say and I and you it despite the how I felt about my father it was

[00:14:59] my duty and it had to be done and my partner was fully an agreement and so we got to go to San

[00:15:06] Joe was like what a woman oh yeah fronting up and leading the charge and getting stuff done and

[00:15:13] I got a lot of respect. Don't Joe's like my son got RT you know she she's played such a significant role

[00:15:17] my life um huge amount of time for her and she she really helped you through that and she like well

[00:15:25] I I remember and you will remember this how so many times over the years I've said to the

[00:15:34] three of you you know Joe's family and yeah and they got to the point where every time I said

[00:15:41] you said for Christ's sake dad we know that you don't have to keep repeating it. Well you know what's

[00:15:48] the you know the root word of family you know I've a family or whatever it's familiar right so

[00:15:53] you know it's been connected and love yeah that's a short for me so so okay

[00:16:01] taught me through this so you went back packed a month yeah that would have been a nightmare I imagine like

[00:16:07] a little shifting and packing especially with an old guy's used to being a number of big castle

[00:16:11] and all that it wasn't too bad because he knew okay it wasn't stupid that that we've the required

[00:16:18] anchor I had connections and transport I knew how the process went yes I supervised the packing

[00:16:26] is a benefit I was really impressed how these guys packed the furniture I did not I mean I

[00:16:35] moved thousands of tons and in my business before every tide and I did not expect them to be

[00:16:41] so done even the way they wrapped the fridge of standing there watching them going oh my god

[00:16:49] that's not to that that is so professional yeah okay so he came over to live with us

[00:16:57] and at this stage we were living in a two-bedroom flat in an area at in Melbourne and we gave

[00:17:04] them the master bedroom with the on-suite for obvious reasons because he was on person and you know

[00:17:11] and sorry if you're going to ask him how old was he you reckon at this time?

[00:17:15] 70s but mid 70s it's not like yeah let's say 73 okay so relative to today's day and age still

[00:17:25] quite young really remember my dad had contracted Parkinson's disease in 863 so that had an

[00:17:34] impact on him as he grew older and it was going still crazy but since he had the money from the

[00:17:44] sailor the house back home and I was the only one to inherit it anyway we started looking for homes

[00:17:54] with a granny flat got you and and and there's quite a few of them and despite the fractured

[00:18:02] relationship emotionally between me and my father I found that every granny flat that I saw even

[00:18:11] if it was a two-bedroom granny flat I wouldn't put my father in all right I put dogs in

[00:18:21] okay not impressed and then by complete coincidence we found the house that I'm in at the moment

[00:18:29] which had been extended the 70s it was originally a two-bedroom one lounge one dining room

[00:18:41] small kitchen place California and bungalow it's now 100 years old

[00:18:48] and they done a beautiful job of extending it in the 70s because the Jewish couple who bought it

[00:18:59] funny enough with the money from their dad because the mother had passed away and there was only

[00:19:06] the dad they extended it so that there was this separate apartment which was attached to the

[00:19:15] living area with his own lockable door etc for their father so still when the main under the main

[00:19:23] roof but separate enough that he has his own space on sweet bar oh yeah no you all that totally

[00:19:28] private bedroom lounge on sweet bathroom and then you could open the door and you could move

[00:19:38] the family kitchen area yeah perfect and we lived in the front of the house and I'm a very good

[00:19:46] cook and josegwood cook and so forth so it worked out really well how did he how did he settle in

[00:19:52] like what was he was he happy to be there was he was he a pain in the butt like well no

[00:19:57] as a benefit of course we showed him the different alternatives before the money was spent to

[00:20:06] purchase the home and the moment he walks through it he said yes well he was always a smart guy and

[00:20:13] he's good you know good with his money and and decisive I'd imagine like he seemed that way anyway so

[00:20:19] it was good for the three of us and funny enough my partner Joe who had a joe is short for Joanne

[00:20:28] and my dad's name is Joe the two joes got on famously yeah oh no look whatever she said he

[00:20:36] would do they both like the glass or two of Delhi plunker and it usually helps lubricate them in

[00:20:42] yes that's how my house has always been full of lubricant as you know but social purposes only

[00:20:50] she got on better with my dad than I did even though it was my duties look after the she

[00:20:55] made it sort of immediate that relationship to some degree yeah I mean if she wasn't there I imagine

[00:21:00] would have been a different story um he look forward to seeing her much more than you know

[00:21:07] but it's a feeling an energy too but there were times when I sat down beside him you know

[00:21:13] yet it jaren the lounges and we had the TV and it foxed down everything for him and

[00:21:19] I thought well this is the time I really need closure with my dad and I just want to gently

[00:21:30] talk about you know the way our lives have unfolded yeah and like you and I doing

[00:21:37] about the impact upon one upon the other yes and it just said no

[00:21:45] hmm would just shut it down wouldn't talk it and did you do that more than once so

[00:21:49] would you try you know a few times or a certain one cause I did okay so you just knew he was a

[00:21:55] brick wall what a hurt me because here I was caring for my father and here I was wanting to

[00:22:06] hmm you need with him it take your time dad he wouldn't allow it yeah yeah that's tough that's

[00:22:22] tough because you're being vulnerable you think you've chosen a good opportunity you think of

[00:22:28] now if any times now it's the time I can have that conversation I'm sorry dad I'm sorry that

[00:22:34] weren't able to to have that meto which is why what we're doing is very important to me yeah

[00:22:47] I know I know and I'm glad we're doing it you know this is um I don't know people realize

[00:22:54] until sometimes it's too late just how vital it is to have that connection with your father

[00:23:01] you know the father needs it the son needs it all you significant parent

[00:23:06] you know absolutely you're right yeah and you're right there's different resonating impacts from

[00:23:11] who you whose relationship you have that's damaged that's lucky so I'm gonna give you credit

[00:23:17] though the fact that you bought him in you tried you cared for him you did the right thing dad

[00:23:23] you did the right it was my duty to look after yeah what did you do to that that's important

[00:23:28] I know but uh I missed out on the thing which was I thought was gonna be the bonus and it

[00:23:39] didn't do that the way yeah so he he bumped you off whatever he obviously just couldn't

[00:23:48] grapple with that sort of level of emotional no he wouldn't he wouldn't it was it was

[00:23:55] some you see which in which in its way is frustrating as well right because I'd it piss me off to be honest

[00:24:01] with you because well it came across to me as an adult as the ultimate rejection yeah

[00:24:11] wow okay and just for anyone else who you know obviously it's hard dad for you and

[00:24:17] and I appreciate you sharing this been how the people listening they've gone through similar things too

[00:24:22] and you know you're not alone there's a lot of people who who have struggled with this over

[00:24:27] the years and there's the different people you can speak to and and you know help you can get

[00:24:32] and speak to your GP if this is something that's affecting you right now I'm really interested

[00:24:37] though and then we're that progressed because I'll tell you later but yeah what okay

[00:24:41] I don't need to tell you right now sure is each of us feels our own pain more evenly than the

[00:24:49] of another that makes perfect sense yeah I mean we can empathize but I don't we can never feel

[00:24:56] yeah but they're feeling and you have to just go through it one way or another yeah

[00:25:05] so he lived on for a few more years you said told me I think one of the recent recently

[00:25:11] that he died at 80 and you've actually asked out lived him no his age I'm the same age

[00:25:16] well you're out living him currently but yeah that's why I jokingly say I'm at the drop off

[00:25:26] so that you said he was maybe early 70s he was there for a number of years

[00:25:32] yeah but what happened son I spent my life making a way from my dad because of what I'd seen and

[00:25:43] experienced and I was doing my duty as any good son would but I didn't know until it was bought

[00:25:54] to my attention for my partner that it started to unravel all the good work I'd done on

[00:26:03] putting together the jigsaw puzzle of the fractured psychology

[00:26:11] well and it started to throw the jigsaw puzzle pieces in different directions and it ultimately

[00:26:22] destroyed our relationship and we had lived together for 13 years wow and so that was

[00:26:30] another price I paid yeah I look I know a little bit about that and you know I don't want to

[00:26:40] I know this is a really tough conversation but I'd also know that that we you know all those

[00:26:46] sort of hurts and those deeper emotional traumas they are triggered very often by our parents and

[00:26:50] especially having them in close proximity for extended periods of time when they're unwell

[00:26:54] and they're grumpy or they're on medication or whatever you it must just be almost impossible

[00:27:00] to combat no no he was old and fragile and in Parkinson's at at taking shape it you know

[00:27:09] it's a long-slowed degenerative disease but it's not in the end it's not unlike motor

[00:27:18] neuron we you're you're you're you're bully function shut down but I couldn't handle the rejection

[00:27:29] from my father and so I didn't know I was unraveling in front of my partner wow yeah so

[00:27:40] you know that's probably maybe that's the subject we can pick up separately another episode

[00:27:46] if you're comfortable but but in terms of what I what I guess I would like to lead to and again

[00:27:53] could tell me if that's too much you know we've already gone quite deep here it in terms of when

[00:27:58] he does get sick and finally gets to that point and you lose you know he passes on

[00:28:04] that's another conversation I was talking about how a beautiful relationship was

[00:28:12] fractured beyond repair yes I I kind of dress all that it's not a problem well I guess I'm

[00:28:22] I'm we're gonna we're gonna revisit a lot of this stuff in forthcoming episodes

[00:28:26] in terms of those that similar relationship with once far then we're gonna bring in some guests

[00:28:31] and we're going to have deeper conversations and even people at sort of specialist in different

[00:28:35] areas and maybe and I don't know some of our own family as well because I think it's important to

[00:28:39] get a bit of a while rounded different opinions on all of this I did don't forget about the

[00:28:45] singers and the dancers we need a full production I'll go go dance it yeah yeah yeah yeah they're

[00:28:50] already booked oh I highly of sense that that's you're coming yeah but just just to cap this off

[00:29:00] like we've been talking for a while here usually we kind of flip it around the bed and we change

[00:29:03] sections but I just thought this justified a deeper conversation and I know no it's hard and

[00:29:09] we've talked about a little bit but we're doing it now with the view to broadcasting it which is

[00:29:13] a different thing I don't know you're open to that so you know we've already checked about that

[00:29:19] how was it for you when you actually lost them yeah because there was such a lead up to it

[00:29:27] and it was a great relief wow I didn't necessarily expect you to say that

[00:29:39] it's a truth huh relief in what way like just you didn't have to worry about them anymore

[00:29:47] he had many strengths I'm not gonna knock him but the day I found out he was dead

[00:30:00] was one of the most releasing days in my life oh my god and how it happened I will tell you

[00:30:11] in another time in space okay because it involves a hospital bureaucracy and all sorts of

[00:30:20] deceit which should not happen in the modern world okay again that there's gonna be a lot of

[00:30:25] people that can probably relate to that too it's been through similar sort of experience

[00:30:29] oh so the institutions are there to help us and largely they do but they fuck up

[00:30:39] and when they do fuck up they do it big time well so so he's sorry about my language

[00:30:45] but that's fine I know that's this is a podcast there we're good I'll just tick the explicit button

[00:30:51] if when I broke out no no no no we're telling the truth so yeah this is real and

[00:31:02] and just to finish this piece off the finishes this conversation

[00:31:10] the fact that he didn't want to have that conversation with you were you able to have it in your

[00:31:17] mind with him and you know get some sort of forgiveness for him or were you able to reconcile all

[00:31:24] that stuff all this but put the jigsaw back together no there was not possible however

[00:31:32] when they showed me where he was lying after he died and this was a bad of the hospital

[00:31:41] I went there and I had a conversation with him and I kissed him in the farred I've

[00:31:48] many dead bodies of my life and I said look all the best dad goodbye they take a boy you got

[00:32:02] was it closure no you know closure only happens in the living world yeah i'm sorry to hear that

[00:32:14] go back to Mike and the mechanics you'll find out

[00:32:19] always I see if I can go with a sample of that the wack in here and not get through the copy right but

[00:32:25] look wow that was um it was big conversation dad thank you for sharing and I know we haven't

[00:32:32] finished it by the way I know we haven't finished it but I think there's maybe enough of the

[00:32:42] for this segment yeah I yeah no I know how much that meant you and I'm the two I've been

[00:32:53] determined my whole life not to find myself in that situation I think you have two and that's why

[00:32:57] we're doing this I would love what we're doing son it's real and it's incredibly important to me

[00:33:05] yeah all right well let's uh let's take a breath and we'll come back to wrap this up

[00:33:14] in just a moment great okay another glass one the meat in him what class yeah there's one more

[00:33:23] thing I'd like to share with you son some people may not be comfortable with this but

[00:33:28] we're talking about the reality of my life my mother had said to me a when she was dying she said

[00:33:34] whatever you do don't know that all bustle on top of me for the rest of the week god no she

[00:33:42] did why that's a classic thing for a person to say oh my god and she died and of course we

[00:33:48] had a funeral and you know did you have one of those double grave things or double decas or

[00:33:55] yes but okay I'll fully win as we go right sure so my dad passed away after

[00:34:03] his presence had unraveled me to the degree that I lost the woman I loved because she just

[00:34:10] had to walk I mean and she made some determined efforts to put us together and we went to

[00:34:16] yeah councillors etc you know if they have it there'd be cost big price to pay oh yeah and it was

[00:34:22] at the turn of the millennium you know it's just new years Eve 2000 or no 1999 I sat there watching

[00:34:31] the tv on my own I cried my heart out and anyway sure story he was in hospital with a broken

[00:34:38] hip and I got this weird call from a nurse say I'm a cisgella such we'd like to see you

[00:34:45] as Friday and I was absolutely flat out and I asked all the questions how's my dad and they

[00:34:50] all got deflected and I couldn't get an answer and I rang Joe and she said Matt I think your father

[00:34:57] spiced away and I said I couldn't be that lucky and I did and she said look I'm coming with you

[00:35:04] we're going to the hospital so we got the hospital and big circular reception centre with

[00:35:12] woods running off it like spokes on a wheel and wood my dad was in the doors closed

[00:35:20] and so I went up to reception and said look this is jealous it's not want to see my dad

[00:35:26] my door closed oh Mrs. jealous it's please take to see the register of the one you know the

[00:35:32] register I got the guy who runs the hospital okay it's not good and Joe's looking at me and I'm looking

[00:35:40] and so he comes out gives me all this bullshit about duty of care and I don't know

[00:35:47] and then finally see the right thing we did everything we could and then here the nurses have a

[00:35:53] routine of checking but unfortunately you know your father choked on his vomit and yes so

[00:36:02] he's dead yes he's dead fine well one tell me that to begin with yeah I mean they lied through

[00:36:09] their back teeth hmm yeah they're also obviously so worried about bloody being sued for

[00:36:15] oh exactly and to be honest with it if it wasn't for the fact that I was pleased my father had died

[00:36:22] I would have sued the pants off them you know if I was looking there was a bit of malpractice or no

[00:36:28] because at every stage starting from nine o'clock in the morning I asked them

[00:36:34] how's my father doing and so forth and I never got an honest answer I got lied to

[00:36:40] the cabinet but the whole time oh fuck yes I know I mean it was disgusting so I said well we're

[00:36:47] easy and funny enough because it was a large circular reception area they had a little room kind of

[00:36:56] in there and he said he's there so I said can't I see him I said yes so I walked in and there he was you know

[00:37:03] dead stone cold eyes closed of course no pennies we've got past that stage and I

[00:37:15] I just said I did what has happened it's a relief for both of us

[00:37:24] um this is five to all the best I'm walked down now riot all this

[00:37:35] he had wanted to his wish was he wanted to be kept on ice or whatever and taken back to New Zealand

[00:37:45] and buried yeah in the frame of yeah which is what she doesn't want she didn't want

[00:37:51] I still can't believe she said that good on a good old duck but but when he found out

[00:37:57] in those days it was $4,000 he didn't know why he said crumat me oh really okay yeah so we took him

[00:38:04] down to spring vows him a crumatorem white lady funerals here he's an ad lovely people

[00:38:11] the dead of fantastic job seen their ads yeah no no sorry he's a compliment

[00:38:17] no no I know they they do some decent promotion yeah yeah they're out there and so

[00:38:24] we were picked up in the limousine and then naturally being us we had a bottle of champagne

[00:38:30] which we were enjoying well in his honor of course yeah and we were traveling behind the

[00:38:36] horse and and Joe said to me I understand how you feel Matt but I want to be upstairs

[00:38:42] and I said I want to be downstairs I want to see it I want to see the cremation I need

[00:38:47] so I got close what what's the difference between upstairs and downstairs sorry

[00:38:51] oh it upstairs is where they have the you know the funeral process ceremony yeah downstairs is

[00:38:59] where they do the job they've got the kill whatever no kills they're ready a circle you know

[00:39:06] should probably about 20 of them wow and who are you allowed to go down there is that I asked permission

[00:39:14] and they said yes it's not why I'm not coming okay but yes of course we'll arrange that

[00:39:19] and then I said the Joe oh shit I'm sorry the horse is she said well in here now so

[00:39:26] it's amazing it's a series of circles and there are these bullet proof glass viewing areas

[00:39:34] and they're bullet proof because some people get emotional they throw themselves against the glass

[00:39:40] wow okay yeah and it's like like many theatres and you can actually see your own coffin

[00:39:46] going into the the cremation chamber and the attendant who was with us addressed in a suit

[00:39:55] and I don't he lovely lovely man but do you remember quasi-modeau the hunchback of not

[00:40:01] long he looked like him but he was a really nice guy and there was just the two of us and we

[00:40:11] saw the coffin go in and it seemed pretty boring and so we talked to him about you know

[00:40:17] our everything goes down and so forth and he liked us so much because we were interested in

[00:40:24] this job wow well he said nothing else to talk about they came back and I said look can I

[00:40:30] say him burn wow and he said and he said it's an unusual request but since you people are

[00:40:37] you're not a steric or you're normal yeah and Joe said not for me so all right now we're in

[00:40:46] round the back and there was an attendant and very professional you got to admire the way that

[00:40:51] whether they do it I mean we're not with they're not burning bodies I should take school children

[00:40:56] through this it's so so educational maybe maybe aspiring entrepreneurs to see how

[00:41:02] how an efficiency works and there was a guy and there's a little circle of flame proof glass

[00:41:11] that you can look through and I didn't realize at two and a half thousand degrees Celsius

[00:41:17] how long it takes a coffin to burn I mean this was 20 minutes after you know it had gone in

[00:41:25] and I know this sounds macabre and I don't say it to offend anyone it's my bloody truth

[00:41:31] you got to live with it I wanted to see his body burn but I did get to see his coffin burning

[00:41:37] and I thought well fair enough I have definitely gone I hadn't studied it so

[00:41:45] and then Joe and I went back to a lovely French restaurant with a vintage bottle of

[00:41:54] who Montrache no is don't burial okay and it was very snowy restaurant when I said you know

[00:42:01] can I bring a bottle away no no no no no no no no no no no you have it what

[00:42:06] about Dom Peri on 1983 I'm a suit yes you're a good taste and that's how we can judge

[00:42:15] that's how I got my closure with my dad I would have so much liked it to have been the way I

[00:42:24] tried when we were sitting together yeah but he couldn't handle it and so eventually or

[00:42:31] and by the way because they found us so interesting they gave us the guided tour and

[00:42:36] we got to the room where they grind the rest of the bones up and so forth no I mean

[00:42:44] and this is me and Joe it's all in process it's happening every day and I get it

[00:42:48] Joe didn't want to be there and she's very bright woman and she's going holy smoke man

[00:42:55] it's just really interesting so we didn't see his bones been ground up and eventually

[00:43:03] inviting on to Chrissy we went to Mangri Cemetery in New Zealand with his ashes

[00:43:12] and we planted them and the top corner my mother's grave okay so he didn't get burying on

[00:43:18] some of her but he's near her in a different form okay well they're both can be visited together

[00:43:26] correct yeah I have seen that grandma's grave but I don't think I've been back since

[00:43:31] granted was there as well but that's something I need to do I need to do well thank you for the

[00:43:38] build on to that story that's kind of a carburetor but also interesting and there's an

[00:43:49] is unexpected and unusual but you've heard from the story of my lifestyle yeah I had these things

[00:43:57] inside me they need to be released or needed to be released the meat in him podcast

[00:44:05] what a way to finish that well it is a completion isn't it it is a absolute closure

[00:44:12] and and it's kind of fitting in a way to be honest because we're going to move on to another season

[00:44:17] and we're going to change it up a little bit so rather than talking about the story of us

[00:44:23] which I maybe the listen you know that's nice to get to know as but it might be

[00:44:27] not be a bit of overkill if we keep going so we're going to change it up what do you think you

[00:44:31] what do you want to do as we move forward well there are some serious topics that that

[00:44:35] impact on all of us miles and females and I'd like to discuss them with you or would like you

[00:44:42] to discuss them with me same thing so that we can work out where we see it going and we can

[00:44:50] create a conversational forum for other people to contribute love it love it so what's what sort of

[00:44:55] things if we were to just suggest a couple topics and obviously we're going to be speaking a bit more

[00:45:00] about locking these in what sort of things do you think would be good to delve into well there's

[00:45:04] something I've already mentioned in our first series is domestic violence or something

[00:45:10] pretty hot about we've only really lightly touched on there so much to talk about isn't it

[00:45:16] I would I would also like to talk about the subject of porn addiction not so much you know

[00:45:24] it's not so much biographical by the way you deliberately criticize me here

[00:45:31] no because look I was up and buy in recently I was speaking to a friend of mine

[00:45:35] I've no in love for years it's lovely guy and we just got the subject of the role of porn

[00:45:42] and men's lives and he had some really interesting perspectives about how it affects your energy

[00:45:46] it affects the feminine fairer moments that the women pick up from you and all that and

[00:45:51] anyway I see to look mate before we go any further would you come on the podcast and just share

[00:45:56] that perspective because I'd love dad to hear it I'd love us to interact on it yeah and it's a

[00:46:01] yeah there's a subject that isn't talked about very much and so there's one other person

[00:46:06] that we could bring on and get another perspective so there's a few deep things to investigate

[00:46:11] you know what that triggers with the subject of addiction per se yes yes

[00:46:18] which is addiction there are so many forms of things like alcohol do yeah

[00:46:23] relations ships it code of dependency yeah absolutely and an addiction is something which

[00:46:29] I'm not a psychologist and so I'm just using my terminology loosely is due to a floor or

[00:46:37] need or a suppressed emotion inside of human being it goes much further than I like to

[00:46:44] speak this I like to do this I like to watch this yeah yeah I like to have sex or what have you

[00:46:50] and it's a former self soothing it's a form of self abuse as well and self abuse that's not

[00:46:56] the way men would think it's me yeah and dad then we also have malsoicide yes right like

[00:47:04] and I know you've experienced people in your of close circle I was you you wouldn't believe this

[00:47:12] son but I was having a deep conversation with a friend of mine's teenage son and he was

[00:47:21] talking about self abuse and suicide and what was interesting was he was able to talk to me

[00:47:30] but not his father about it wow the father loves him so much and it was such a privileged

[00:47:36] position to be in because he could get it off his chest yeah and he needs to get off his chest and we could

[00:47:42] talk about it it meant a man well well old man to young man I that's a great example dad and that's

[00:47:51] having those conversations it doesn't have to be with people you're related to it could be as

[00:47:57] I've got a mental friend I speak to very openly exactly yeah often even though we'd love

[00:48:04] our family we're sort of caught up in the emotional fabric of the different roles we play

[00:48:12] and it's easier just to tell a stranger whom we feel we can trust about these things and if

[00:48:19] the stranger is wise enough they're stranger can guide the person irrespective of their age because

[00:48:26] I've dealt with both young and all and into a more comfortable self nurturing sphere

[00:48:34] bottom line is dad I think we need to we need to help people are doing this really well but we

[00:48:39] need to help shine some sunlight into these dark crevices of you know men's thoughts and emotional

[00:48:45] states and help to alleviate the burden to some degree through enabling sharing and spiring sharing

[00:48:54] I will say also that we do have a website me and him podcast.com where you can contact us you can

[00:49:03] not say for therapeutic advice of any sort of my personal scenario we're not qualified we're just

[00:49:10] hearing sharing human being yes yeah and also it might inspire a conversation on one of our

[00:49:15] next podcasts and and maybe even a guest or so who knows there's lots of potential dad I

[00:49:22] I've so enjoyed doing this with you just to finish up with if we could if I could be so bold

[00:49:28] it's just to share something that I most admire about you and ask you to share the same with me

[00:49:34] and we haven't really rehearsed this or anything I just wanted to say because people say that

[00:49:39] you admire what you most want to become you know that's something that you want in your life as well and

[00:49:44] one thing I talk to other people about I admire about you is your ability to create large circles

[00:49:50] of friends from all walks of life all different personalities all different experience different

[00:49:55] ages and it keeps you young at heart it keeps you it interested it keeps you I think going to some

[00:50:01] degree and I hope that I am able to do that at your age and I just think it's a wonderful thing

[00:50:10] and good on you. So I see you doing that at your age now thank you. Look this sounds so simplistic

[00:50:19] people like me who've been trained in science will go who who who but it's cool sharing the love

[00:50:25] you can extend your love to strangers in a totally non-invasive non-confrontational way to give them

[00:50:34] the space to be themselves and to share themselves with you. Yes yeah and this what is all about

[00:50:41] I agree I agree so uh oh and then by the way you know um I didn't finish um I've watched you grow

[00:50:52] obviously because you're my son yes I was tiny I was I was actually just a seed and you're not

[00:50:57] second one point yeah I don't know why that one was picked but then we're we're back got there

[00:51:05] and you know you you're developing into a very wonderful person and you've achieved a lot

[00:51:15] in your business life and so I'm very proud of you well that's nice who may or you know

[00:51:20] now also the producer of the me and the hip and podcast one of the uh coming shock horror top 20

[00:51:25] oh my god in the world on my whole mental health and relationships not I'm just not we're not quite

[00:51:32] there yet no I'm just it's my I'm manifesting right now dead all right well look um enough

[00:51:39] self you know a grandest mint and and you know we can week a hug later hug it out later

[00:51:44] it's been an absolute joy 12 episodes in the bag more to come deeper better stronger faster

[00:51:53] isn't there song around that yeah I think it's tough I have a question does cute um all

[00:51:59] okay come on we've got a red thing huh haven't I give you a decent hug over zoom

[00:52:04] well with the way we did cover we got oh yeah all right just consider it done

[00:52:11] oh yeah yeah no worries dad all right well look we'll sign off there let's pick it up in a week or so

[00:52:17] talk about Nick season coming I'm looking forward to rolling this out across the nation across

[00:52:23] the world and inspiring conversations until then take care stay with us stay with me we've got

[00:52:30] another season coming dad give you a reason to live he's not even gonna respond that out I

[00:52:38] I did I lifted my eyebrows oh yeah well you can't see that on that podcast again yeah all right

[00:52:43] bye for now but the me in him podcast