Ep6: One for the Ladies

[00:00:00] Hey Dad and good afternoon or should I say good morning? Well, it's either. Well, I heard you had a late night last night. A few friends came around? Yes they left early.

[00:00:18] We had a nice time but I go to a lot of trouble to cook special meals for my guests and I leisurely cleaned up over about four hours. Wow. Yes, I've heard you potting around at 2am before when I've crashed there after one of your fantastic meals.

[00:00:35] So I'm sure they were suitably engorged and what have you. So that's cool. Well, it's a Sunday today. We were going to catch up on, I think it was Thursday to record this episode and I bailed on you this time.

[00:00:49] So thanks for making an allowance again to do Sunday. But the reason I bailed on you was because I had already missed one, what they call Entree event to the men's table club I was telling you about and I didn't want to miss this one.

[00:01:03] So I actually turned up and did this men's table meeting, found out about the organization, there were, I must be about 20 different blokes there from all over the country and it was really interesting Dad.

[00:01:15] I mean, I'll tell you more about it maybe over the course of this episode but I... No, I'd like to hear about that. Yeah, it was wow. It was... I don't want to say heavy because it was inspiring that there was an organization

[00:01:30] really helping men and growing so quickly but it was hearing some of the men's stories when they did the introductions about their lives and where they've landed and what they need and their fractured relationships and this and that.

[00:01:43] I was like, well, I thought my position was kind of like not the best but I've made the best of it. There are so many different shades of mild trauma out there Dad and I was humbled at the end of it to be honest.

[00:01:58] I've had the same experience the one time I went to AA, Alcoholics Anonymous. Various people got up. They couldn't help you or? Well, no. I chose not to help myself as per usual but I was absolutely stunned at the level of honesty both males and females

[00:02:20] and the things they put themselves through and their families with their alcoholism it just gave you goosebumps and it was all real and these people had conquered these tremendous violent addictions. Look, I've been not to one of those groups but in something similar

[00:02:38] and sometimes you got to stop your jaw from hitting the floor when you're listening to some of these stories. So it's all relative, right? And I guess for me it may be a little bit anxious actually

[00:02:53] and excited because I've done a lot of work in this area over the last decade or two and I figure I'm doing okay. I have my wobbly moments but when I look out there the groundswell of men in need and struggling

[00:03:10] and trying to find a voice and trying to find a community I actually can't really fathom the depths of it right now. One of the problems is that men tend to keep things bottled up because they've got to be tough and they're logical, etc.

[00:03:28] Women have an advantage because they're to a degree run by their emotions and they're very, very happy to share their emotions with other women. And we as a particular gender and I can only speak for Caucasians tend to isolate ourselves and we're in our own little prison

[00:03:46] so it doesn't surprise me that some powerful stories came out last night or the other night, I beg your pardon. Yeah, the other night, yeah. So I'm going to investigate that further

[00:03:56] and I think it's not only going to be really a wonderful thing to be a part of for me but I want to be able to serve where I can as well. So hopefully that will go ahead and move forward.

[00:04:10] I also wanted to sort of just let you know one other quick thing I've been thinking about and this is an idea of, it came through I guess the men's table but I'm asking better questions of each other rather than use sport and weather maybe in this case.

[00:04:25] Oh no, sport and weather are everything. Didn't you know that son? Well, you know the typical or yeah, usually it's, it might be sport, it might be and actually that came up as a theme on this call that some guys said I'm not into sport.

[00:04:41] So I find it really hard to communicate with groups of men sometimes and I'm like, oh yeah, I can relate. You know, sometimes I wish there was an app where you could just check the latest sporting injuries and kind of rock up to the pub

[00:04:53] and go, oh what about Johnson? Huh? Yeah, show me Zell with the hammy. It'll come, I'm sure. That's right, maybe that's our next billion dollar idea. All right, well good to have you here even though it is a lazy Sunday Arvo, let's still have some fun

[00:05:09] and we're going to kick off finding a little bit more about your uni life in just a second. The Me In Him podcast. So we've been speaking a lot about men's stuff and fatherhood and manhood which is fair, right?

[00:05:26] I mean that's Me In Him is about that right? We're two blokes, you know, you don't need to be expected. Got on your son. Yeah, yeah, we're really blokey, blokes too. And I thought maybe it's time to just veer slightly off course and talk, is it off course?

[00:05:47] I don't know about women. No, it's not off course. It's kind of all in the same zone, isn't it really? Because whilst the family lineage, we've been tracking that around granddad and great granddad and you know we've made mention and you've mentioned a couple of the role

[00:06:03] of the significant women have played in your life and I think all of us are in that position in terms of our relationships with women. They should really be teaching us something good or bad. Well they try hard but we're bad listeners. We are bad listeners.

[00:06:19] So I wanted to spend a little bit of time filling in the other half, you know, the yin or the yang or whichever one it is and I thought a good place to start would be going back. Oh by the way, how about the yin or the burn?

[00:06:33] It sounds like you get the burn if you've been playing the field a bit much potentially. We won't go there. Yeah that's another episode. So I wanted to sort of go back to grandma because she was such a formative influence

[00:06:49] I would imagine in your life, granddad for different reasons and grandma Jenny, such a lovely memory for me just smiles and fun and she really loved her grandkids right and she seemed like a really wonderful woman and from the sounds of things she was quite

[00:07:08] either trapped or she was in a relationship that there wasn't going to be a quick exit from for whatever reason and you've given me a little bit of insight into that but I'd just like to understand from your perspective

[00:07:21] particularly about what maybe some of your most vivid memories of grandma are around that time growing up. Can you share a little bit about that? I can and the word vivid brings particular images to mind but I think we'll cover them gradually. Well look up to you.

[00:07:43] You did ask the question and I'm answering it. My mother was a very kind person and scrupulously clean. You could eat off her flaws. Now as I mentioned in the previous episode the 50s were pretty, the pre-war sorry post-war 50s were tough and rough

[00:08:02] and my mother kept even in austere limited backgrounds for example the apartment they were in when I was born had no hot water, no electricity, just gas lamps was up a flight of about 30 wooden stairs was effectively three rooms on was a kitchen

[00:08:25] one was a general purpose store things and also have a tin bath because that's how you kept clean she literally heated up the water on the gas stove and poured it into the bath just so you know you've told that whole story before

[00:08:45] on this podcast so I know your memory's not great but I appreciate you repeating to set the scene to talk more about grandma I'm sorry about that son I mean you know I'm 80 and I'm just calling it before I went on for another 10 minutes

[00:09:01] and I'm like it's not so much have you stopped recording at this point? no no we're going to roll with the punches here so what do you remember most about her specifically? she was very attractive she was hardworking she was kind and she did her best

[00:09:20] to look after her man who was a hard worker but unfortunately when he drank too much he couldn't control his temper which is one of the scars that I take as a legacy is a bad word but I'll use it from my childhood

[00:09:35] because I saw the fights over the dinner table and I heard some of the repercussions afterwards from my mother crying and so forth I was a lonely little only child and I didn't realise it was damaging me and it did which is one of the reasons why

[00:09:53] I am a passionate advocate for against domestic violence there's no excuse to beat up a woman yes sometimes they've got viper like tongues but you just have to learn to roll with the punches and don't use your fists I want to circle back to Grandma in a second

[00:10:14] but there is this balance or a seesaw between emotion and intelligence the higher the emotion the lower the rational capabilities and I can imagine when especially not just granddad but any bloke and bloke's today who drank too much and carrying a lot of emotion it comes out

[00:10:40] and even though you may be not you know that there are some serious repercussions for acting in a certain way it was like the bottle is uncorked and all this emotion and anger and hurt comes out does it have any resonance to what you saw with granddad

[00:10:55] I mean was he struggling inside? it was only when I was much older I could look back on my father with compassion and realize that he had demons I was too young then and our young we have a responsibility to bring them up in a secure loving environment

[00:11:19] and you don't have a secure loving environment with this domestic violence and it scares everyone so I understood and I can understand that that would have been quite a frightening scenario I imagine for grandma at times but let's look at more the positive side

[00:11:40] what was she most passionate about what was she most into what brought her joy well she worked for a firm called Clipplin Sons in Obston Street and they had a factory and she was a cutter so after school I joined her and she'd take me home later

[00:12:00] and I got to see as a very young child what happens in the fabric industry when they're cutting vast layers of the same colored fabric with a chalk profile on the top into 20 dresses or 40 something or others and she was very very good at her job

[00:12:23] and I didn't know until a long time after her death when I was helping my dad sort out things and he'd already thrown out half the family heritage anyway when he lived on his own and I found this letter dated mid 50s from a company in London

[00:12:42] asking my mother to come and join them and then paying her fears to go right across the world to cut for them because she was so good oh wow and I just went wow hmm so she was pretty talented she was so she was passionate about

[00:13:00] very industrious by the sounds of things oh very very clean and a very good cook she learned or she wasn't when she met my dad funny enough and I'll tell you about the circumstances of her origin later my dad coming from the Dalmatian side

[00:13:15] actually was quite a reasonable cook and she picked up on all of the Dalmatian dishes which she used to cook for us you know because my dad liked them and they were my heritage as far as cooking was concerned I didn't realize

[00:13:32] and stop me if I've already said this how absolutely bland the cooking which came to the colonies from England was hmm yeah you did you've made some some reference on that but it's yeah I understand that she's become probably inherited a bunch of that sort of knowledge

[00:13:53] maybe from what my grandma my dad taught her oh I'll tell you really okay yeah and you know she became a better cook than him and she was very kind and loving that's why your grandchildren would have fond memories of her yeah absolutely I mean I remember

[00:14:10] like granddad was always the grumpy old Slavic dude he would occasionally bust out a smile and I remember I got a couple of photos of writing on his back in the backyard where he was probably half cut

[00:14:22] after drinking his own supply for half the day in the sun with us you know are you speaking about the family now yeah well that's right that's where it all started and but I do remember her being the light and the smiles and the laughter

[00:14:38] and I remember one particular time we were all sitting around having her famous trifle I think it was and she had a few sherrys herself and she ran out there she had some song playing and she was skipping away and she'd lift up her dress

[00:14:50] and sort of flashed a petticoater and these sort of things you know and dance around the house and we all thought it was a bit A risk gay and B very old worldly but see hilarious because granddad's in the gun

[00:15:01] good woman back in the kitchen woman get her back yeah Jesus now that you bought that subject up I remember when they used to have parties in the 50s because I used to stay up late then and sort of lie on the couch

[00:15:16] while the adults were having a few drinks and chats and they might turn to a particular station on the radio and with her Scottish heritage and a few drinks she loved to do the Harlem fling that's what it was that was what it was

[00:15:34] as a young lad I was always so embarrassed when she did it well we thought it was hilarious we're like good on the old gal because she looked like she was a grandma to us you know not a not a mum it's a bit a little bit different

[00:15:48] as I grew up I became more well I developed a sense of humour looking back at those memories yeah when you're just a young kid oh totally you don't know what's going on that's nice just to sort of get a bit of a fix again on grandma

[00:16:11] she was a lovely individual and obviously important in terms of her influence on you and your expectation of I guess a female partner you know maybe qualities of do you think she played any role in and what you looked for past that point in for a female partner

[00:16:31] son you've triggered a memory I've been divorced 50 years so and as you know I've had a few tried before you guys during that time I've known a lot of women and every woman I've loved I still respect even though we've broken up

[00:16:45] and I think the women in my life have made the man that you see now because I've learned so much from them but as is normal you meet someone at a party and you click and you go out and what not

[00:16:58] you don't give them a checklist of things you know are you like my mother in this way or that way every single one of them has turned out to be scrupulously clean and I have never asked that question during the intimate beginnings and so forth spooky

[00:17:17] yes I think there's something to be said for you know it's the same with women and their fathers they seem to they want to replicate what's familiar I think men do as well that was really interesting and I appreciate the enlightening around grandma

[00:17:33] I also just had a memory triggered and it's about finding comfort in women which is more of my story and I'm going to share that next The Me In Him podcast While we're on the subject of women and girls

[00:17:49] I thought I would just take a trip down memory lane myself back to when I was a fresh faced little lost six year old boy and looking for someone to nurture me that sounds pretty deep and mournful and you know sad but look when I was

[00:18:10] I've alluded to this or touched on this a little bit previously but there were a lot of times where I was sort of out on my own just to take my bike around trying to fill in my own time sometimes getting into mischief and what have you

[00:18:23] but one of my very early memories and I remember is a person and that's Rachel Rachel Smith, my first girlfriend that I can remember at six years old Cherve family lived up the road and we used to hang out

[00:18:37] walk hand in hand and spend all our time together after school and I think there was even might have been doctors and nurses but a very innocent kind in those days and right from that age everyone thought I was a little bit of a Casanova

[00:18:51] they're like oh look at this kid he's got a little girlfriend it's a different story but anyway the point I'm making is I started, I was lucky enough I guess to have a little female companion but then once Rachel moved on there was Linda at school

[00:19:09] who was my girlfriend for three years serious girlfriend too I would spend a lot of time with her and got into a little bit of mischief as well and then a little bit older again there was Jane and it kept going dad it was female companion girlfriend

[00:19:26] after female companion girlfriend and I didn't think too much of it I guess I was just focused on women's company and it wasn't until much much later in life where I had spent now spent 30 or 40 years just chasing women around

[00:19:42] and trying to get them to like me and be with me and commit to me and having those relationships end and then having to learn hang on doing that course of time you got married yes I remember being there and I remember having a few drinks

[00:19:59] with your father-in-law and I remember the two of you actually walking in from the sand into the sea that's right yeah it's down at Nelson Park right in the city, Sydney city, it's beautiful yeah that was a look I'm not going to take anything away from those really

[00:20:17] those magical moments getting married back at that time with all family and friends around was wonderful and spent a good period of time I think 20 years or 16 years from that point with Helen and resulting three wonderful kids then that ended and there was another woman in my life

[00:20:36] and I've got to a point now and I'm single at the moment I'm just going to I just want to reach out is there anything any woman listening to this no no don't listen to him you're old school I've got better choices go somewhere else

[00:20:53] I'm not doing the podcast for that reason it is for men but I wanted to make a final point on that it's only through the passage of time and through reflection that I've looked back and realised that I was seeking comfort and safety through women

[00:21:06] and I didn't realise how dependent that had become or how co-dependent I'd become on being validated by a woman and to some degree outsourcing some of the things I needed to be learning or showing up in my life to them it's not uncommon

[00:21:25] I mean there are other men with whom that will resonate well look it's been a journey I've taken and part of the part of the last I don't know five years potentially ten years is me looking at how I'm living my life as an individual

[00:21:42] and finding happiness within myself and since worthiness and not needing someone else to make me feel more complete and that's I didn't realise that was an issue for me and when I did I thought it was actually quite a big one

[00:21:57] to have to make sure that you are fulfilled already not necessarily without needs but just happy and whole to the degree that anyone can be so that you're not usurping the energy or trying to control or exert or complete something within yourself through a partner because it's always

[00:22:18] look it's probably the pattern of dysfunction that I've carried from relationship to relationship and I'm honest with you and I don't want to keep doing that hence the reason maybe I'm single right now and focused on myself I admire your honesty

[00:22:33] it takes balls to say what you've just said that's good to hear I can relate to that in my different way because my times were different I did something similar I needed and I didn't know at the time I needed to establish my identity through another person

[00:22:52] and that was usually a female and I have the utmost admiration for all those beautiful females who stopped to spend some time with me I thank them I totally agree Dad the biggest lessons I've learned unfortunately have been the ones that hurt the most

[00:23:11] and they were the ones that came from a relationship not working out and I was just thinking the other day the one thing that you want to be able to say to yourself at the end of a very painful relationship where it's easy to blame the other person

[00:23:27] and make them the source of all evil That's the worst thing you can do and feeling of righteousness this is my story look I've been in the pits of despair and blaming everyone else and what have you I know I have right so we all do at times

[00:23:43] but the thing that you have to be able to say yourself I believe is without that I wouldn't have learned this important thing about myself Couldn't agree more So it's a lesson in the end if you choose to make it one

[00:23:59] and maybe one of the most important lessons you needed to learn and you refuse to do it any other way and that's how you got that's how you had to learn unfortunately huh It sounds familiar son Sucks doesn't it Father like son What a worry

[00:24:18] Well maybe it's a related men's thing we know each other's lives pretty darn well and so see things reflected in each other's lives a generation apart but even like I was referring to this on this talk with the men's table these 18 complete strangers all said things that resonated

[00:24:39] directly with me and all saying different things one was a younger kid who was maybe 22 he felt ostracized by his people of his own age and found that older men with life experience were interested in him and it's the first time he felt someone was interested in him

[00:24:54] and it could be himself and relax and even that made me think about myself you know probably because I'm an egotist I thought I was thinking about me No not you Did I say to you did I mention before I'm single out there

[00:25:11] so if anyone knows any lovely ladies forget it this is not a bloody metrimonial advertecity I've tried all the dating apps so I figured maybe the podcast next adventure but hey speaking of dating I'm struggling or have been struggling but you know I'm cool with that

[00:25:30] I'm happy to be whole and by myself for a while but you were telling me just before that you threw out a call to I don't know some website or elderly women tell me that story because you didn't go into great detail what I'm interested in

[00:25:47] Okay it harks back to what we've discussed before the mat crap all the writing that I've done songs and poems and so forth for decades I've had a couple of my weird and wonderfuls produced in the musical environment and one of them is on YouTube

[00:26:06] and I thought it was bucket list but it looks like it might be there are many but all my time and as the state's back to being an only child when I realized that I needed to write and I actually had music form in my head

[00:26:24] when I was at university and I didn't study music I was in science and I can remember how interesting it was to have a complete orchestra playing inside my head and you know I'm a pop music guy anyhow so I thought

[00:26:42] I wonder if there's a mature woman out there who is kind of more of a musician whom I could connect with on an empathetic friendship emotional working together Sorry a younger woman did you say? No a mature woman Gotcha you're one of much older than 80

[00:27:04] You take any out of it No my cut off point is 65 all women under 65 is pedophilia As far as I'm concerned You've got to have some principles So I joined this mature dating site and even before I'd given them a proper profile I was inundated

[00:27:27] with women from overseas and exotic backgrounds as well as a few Caucasian women wanting to date wanting romance which is not what I went on the site Now are you sure these aren't Indian scammers sort of plying you massaging your ego with fake profiles?

[00:27:50] Anything's possible in this AI open source AI world sun but it got to the point it was such a deluge that I just cut it off and that whole process took about a week God you're on fire aren't ya So maybe I'm in that Twilight zone

[00:28:11] between I'm not good for a tender date because you've got to be 25 and under but I don't qualify for the 80 and over where there seems to be only women left alive and any guy that's left is just attacked like a Swarman Piranhas Some of these presumably fake personas

[00:28:30] but designed to be very alluring We're in your age zone I mean there was some in the 50s You know what Dad just on that and congratulations and I understand what you're saying about I have to turn off the fire hose there I had to it was ridiculous

[00:28:50] But just on that one of the things that I found really sad was when I did venture out and start speaking to a couple of people I'm a pretty technical I'm technically literate I'm good with computers, good with technology and I actually got scammed

[00:29:07] by someone praying on me being a bit lonely and having someone show interest in me and wanted to me to send something to do something because of this reason what have you and I checked it all the way and did all the sort of relevant

[00:29:20] I followed all the relevant steps other than if it sounds too good to be true it is, I didn't follow that one because I guess I was a bit vulnerable at that time and I got scammed by 100 bucks it cost me $100 someone picked it up

[00:29:33] and that profile then popped up at another single site I saw the same picture with a different caption the next week even though it was reported and what have you so there I just maybe realize how these insidious scammers just pray on whether be you're an old person

[00:29:49] or whether be a lonely guy they're just praying on these vulnerabilities to take dollars out of your pocket I'm not saying they happen to you but that was eye opening for me that even someone like me is in that position

[00:30:01] Son I don't have the evidence to back this up but I genuinely believe that the criminals are better than we are at using the new technology Well absolutely, I think they have to be that's where you make money now as a

[00:30:16] as a crim, it's all online, it's all cyber warfare and hence there isn't so much money and people being trained up on cyber right now to hold the fort I guess to guard the gate all that so hey look there's a little bit of a touch

[00:30:28] on women and all things partnership and vulnerability and all of that kind of an interesting take a little bit of a different topic for our chat actually is it a different topic for our chats we talk about all sorts of stuff no?

[00:30:42] I mean do you want to hear about another episode that was very successful well depending how long it is there because we're at 14 minutes right now oh it's an intake to a three day son well I've got some good news for your dad yes

[00:31:01] so you know when we started talking about this podcast maybe couple of years ago I or maybe you don't know but I was thinking about it then I saved a whole bunch of emails to my computer at the time went through them all found some good ones

[00:31:16] I found about 50 which was a small representation of you know the the mega tons that were there and I put them in a folder on my computer and I went to try and get them out live the last couple of weeks and they were all locked

[00:31:30] and there was some security issue with them and I couldn't download them and I'm like oh man all that work I did to put them together anyway I managed to unlock it with my amazing technical now and I have access to my folder

[00:31:42] of saved emails now so I found one from the archives exciting huh wow emails from dad yeah so this one is actually from November 29, 2020 at a reasonable time 10 30 at night and you had basically copied us in from an email from your producer mate Danny and you

[00:32:08] the email title was first pass the basic skeleton and you were basically introducing us to what you called your protest song the very first of many iterations you actually attached it for feedback as well and you talked about there being a choir and a few other bits involved

[00:32:24] and we were like oh god what's he up to now that was three and a half years ago I think what has happened since then it was around about COVID wasn't it I think it was COVID yeah around that time, 2020 so I found this email

[00:32:38] just popped up was the first one I opened and I thought you know what I have heard some had you mentioned something about that recently tell us a story about that and where that's at well the beginnings of the song actually came to me in university

[00:32:51] and they can soon Shakespeare the song is actually called winter of discontent which was one of Shakespeare's novels and it sort of lay around and every couple of decades I'd add something else to it by inspiration until around about COVID or just before COVID I thought yeah

[00:33:15] I've always wanted to be a songwriter in companion with someone else and the opportunity it never ever arose so I was directed by a friend to the talent and I ended up with two producers both lovely people with different skill sets and got it done

[00:33:37] it was for my age it was a bucket list thing I needed to get from this morass of fragments of poems and songs something together and something which was relevant to the context of the times out and we finally did it good on you

[00:33:57] yeah and so it's out I didn't realize it had gone back the seeds of that were stretched so far back to when I was 16 so you, great you knew it was important to do but it just wasn't the right timing or wouldn't have the right companions

[00:34:13] or what have you when I looked around pre-COVID what was happening in the world I realized that and it was unfinished at that stage but it didn't need much to finish it was a direct reflection of the times and so I thought to hell with it

[00:34:29] I mean it cost me $28,000 because I never dealt with anyone in the music industry before and I didn't know if it was copyright or not but it's out we've got it on YouTube you're right if I put a link to it on the show notes

[00:34:47] well it's on YouTube I guess so it's really available to everyone yeah no do what you like so nothing embarrasses me these days well just give us do you remember any of it off top your head you want to give us a line or two from it

[00:35:05] just to give us a sample to get wet the appetites well it's very Shakespearean at the beginning now is the winter of our discontent dreams born in summer light twisted and bent then we move on again sleep that nits the ravilled sleeve of care is not there

[00:35:27] peace on earth for all of us to share is not there et cetera there we go folks opens up a whole doorway into the wonderful world of matcrap but this is this is the stuff that's being polished and released look interesting to see that this

[00:35:49] congratulations is what I need to say here because to push something out that's important and make it happen and remember someone saying once if all ideas were worth millions all librarians would be billionaires you know there's information is everywhere but the actual nows to put effort and money

[00:36:11] and time and passion and drive behind it that is true artistry to deliver on a goal like that it became a passion son and bucket list is the correct term cool well we'll find out more about your other bucket list items that I know

[00:36:27] you've got a bunch of buckets hanging the edge of that cliff I keep tripping over them good stuff dad well that was fun let's wrap it up well we said back or you said back in episode 1 dad that women we wouldn't be here without

[00:36:47] them and never has a true word been spoken but there also is that other famous quote by Bob Marley who is a great writer and a cry yes it's gain and pain in equal measure so it's been good to reflect a little bit about I guess

[00:37:07] the relationship with women and the lessons and I think that's a big thing for me that's come out of today is just and the big thing that's come out of my life we've only just touched on it I agree but the lessons that relationships give you

[00:37:19] to further strengthen your own sense of self independence and I'm not I hate to say that it sounds like it's a less than sort of conversation but the reality is we've all got to be honest with ourselves sometimes and go okay am I

[00:37:35] as integrated as I could or should be to have the relationship that I most desire big topic we'll have to address it later yeah I guess so but look I'll put that link below to your protest song and I did send you the latest kind of produced version

[00:37:53] of the song that we've been working on together which you seem to like which is good you're doing very well I'm very impressed well now I'm a big Tom producer as well so I'm going to I'm going to I'm gonna actually cover that I think

[00:38:09] for the next emails with dad next episode because that song's come together I might even do a little bit of a preview clip of it if I can work out the tech but it's look it's been great to chat dad

[00:38:19] what are you up to for the rest of the AVO um rearranging my life because whenever I have guests I have to put all my papers away oh yeah the cleanup it clear the table and do everything nice and now I've got to dig them

[00:38:35] up from wherever they are and have a look at the week ahead and make sure that I fulfill all my appointments wow there we go it's a busy life at 80 lots of lots of entertaining and hijinks well we'll leave it there dad we'll look forward to chatting you

[00:38:57] to you in the next couple days likewise thank you bye