Ep7: Genghis Kahn

[00:00:00] Hi, Son. How's it going on this lovely sunny Sunday morning?

[00:00:11] Which day is it, Dad?

[00:00:13] That's a problem for retired people to sort out.

[00:00:17] When you retire, it's all Saturday or Sunday or Wednesday.

[00:00:21] Yeah, I seem to live in an in and eternal Saturday.

[00:00:26] Oh my God.

[00:00:27] I'm so jealous.

[00:00:28] Don't know what the public holidays are.

[00:00:31] I don't care.

[00:00:32] Well, it's funny.

[00:00:33] A friend of mine said to me at work actually said,

[00:00:35] look, I'm just looking forward to forgetting which day it is

[00:00:38] because then I know I'm on holiday.

[00:00:40] And I thought, what a great marker.

[00:00:42] And then I was over, I think it was over Christmas

[00:00:45] where I was like, is it Thursday or Friday?

[00:00:49] And I'm like, oh, I'm on holiday.

[00:00:51] So now it's got stuck in my head,

[00:00:56] like a brain worm.

[00:00:58] You know, I'm like, all right, as soon as I forget what day it is,

[00:01:00] it must be on my fishy holiday, you know, celebrate.

[00:01:03] Anyways.

[00:01:04] Oh well, you've got to be careful about that.

[00:01:05] Yeah, yeah.

[00:01:07] That's right.

[00:01:08] Well, I don't want to celebrate too hard.

[00:01:09] I can't even think about it right now because I'm a bit worse

[00:01:13] for wear after a couple of too many Vino's last night.

[00:01:16] So naughty, naughty.

[00:01:18] Yes, I know.

[00:01:19] I know I tried to follow your sober example.

[00:01:20] All those years I've tried to show you how to do it properly.

[00:01:27] Well, you failed me again.

[00:01:28] In honor of your brand, let's call it your brand,

[00:01:34] because I noticed for your 80s, I was like,

[00:01:37] I'm making this really nice bottle of wine.

[00:01:38] Like, I think he really appreciate that.

[00:01:40] And I went down to the vineyard and it was one of the last

[00:01:43] of that particular bin and everything.

[00:01:45] I'm like, I'll call, pay a lot more than this.

[00:01:46] Hey, I still haven't drunk it by the way.

[00:01:48] Good, good.

[00:01:49] You know which one it is.

[00:01:50] Speed save?

[00:01:51] Yes, of course I do.

[00:01:52] But then obviously we were there at the next day of your party

[00:01:54] and there was like, oh, I wonder what this is.

[00:01:55] Another bottle of booze, another bottle of wine, another one.

[00:01:57] I'm like, oh, I didn't even realize that.

[00:02:00] I should have connected that everyone's going to give you booze.

[00:02:03] All right.

[00:02:04] So I'm not standing out from the pack right now.

[00:02:06] Well, that just shows how discerning they are.

[00:02:09] And also a reason I said about your brand is because

[00:02:11] we've now added in a bottle of wine and a wine glass

[00:02:14] on our new Menham logo as well.

[00:02:17] So now it's indoctrinated.

[00:02:19] Well, it fits with the old fat guy, doesn't it?

[00:02:21] I actually made him a bit slimmer.

[00:02:23] I photoshopped him down.

[00:02:24] I love you like that.

[00:02:25] Oh yeah.

[00:02:26] So what's been on your mind anyway?

[00:02:29] Well, I've been thinking about the father and son thing

[00:02:32] which we're doing and I'm loving by the way.

[00:02:35] And there are two songs in popular music

[00:02:38] which have affected me deeply

[00:02:40] and they concern father and son.

[00:02:42] One is Kat Stevens song on Tee for the Tillerman

[00:02:45] in the 70s called Father and Son.

[00:02:48] And this is from the point of view of a father

[00:02:52] trying to give his presumably teenage sons some wise advice.

[00:02:57] That's a beautiful song.

[00:02:58] I can see my head right now.

[00:03:00] It's just so haunting.

[00:03:02] And we fathers, and I'm sure you've had this experience too,

[00:03:07] learn from experience that it's only at the point

[00:03:11] that the young person is ready to ask the question

[00:03:14] they can hear the answer.

[00:03:16] So if you try and tell them something for their own good

[00:03:20] and they're not ready for it, it'll be rejected

[00:03:23] because they already know everything about the world

[00:03:25] and you know nothing.

[00:03:27] Yeah, we're just chatting a bit about that, weren't we?

[00:03:29] Like, yeah, 14 or 15 is amazing.

[00:03:31] You actually know everything more than the internet now.

[00:03:34] Like, you just know everything.

[00:03:36] And the other song which has always brought me to tears

[00:03:39] is Mike and the Mechanics of the Living Years.

[00:03:42] And that, again, is written from the son's perspective.

[00:03:46] But you know it starts with, I wasn't there that morning

[00:03:51] when my father passed away.

[00:03:53] I didn't have the time to tell him all the things I had to say.

[00:03:58] Brings a lump to my throat.

[00:04:02] Yeah, I can hear it.

[00:04:03] And I know you've spoken to me about that before

[00:04:06] and you've also spoken even previously on this podcast

[00:04:09] about trying to have those conversations with your dad.

[00:04:12] They're very important.

[00:04:14] And that's one of the things that you and I are doing now.

[00:04:17] This is not entertainment, this is us being real with each other

[00:04:22] and learning from each other.

[00:04:24] Sometimes good things, sometimes painful things

[00:04:27] but they need to be expressed

[00:04:29] because I'm not going to be around too much longer.

[00:04:31] Yeah, well look, I've always enjoyed our chats

[00:04:34] and we have a laugh and we get ridiculous

[00:04:38] and then we go very deep

[00:04:40] and we often do learn something new

[00:04:42] and create something new.

[00:04:44] So let's do that right now, shall we?

[00:04:47] Yeah.

[00:04:48] You got something good to share?

[00:04:49] Well I will have in a moment.

[00:04:51] Good, let's go.

[00:04:53] The Me In Him podcast.

[00:04:56] So what I've really been enjoying

[00:04:58] is not only listening to the story of your background

[00:05:02] and I guess your life

[00:05:03] but also being able to share what's been going on with me

[00:05:06] but more importantly as I've listened back to a couple of the podcasts now

[00:05:10] the edited versions are exciting.

[00:05:13] It's just some of these insights, these collective insights

[00:05:16] that we gain along the way.

[00:05:18] I think for me that's probably what I'm enjoying the most.

[00:05:22] What about you?

[00:05:23] Yes, you can never predict when they're going to occur.

[00:05:27] I was always a very curious child intellectually.

[00:05:31] Remember that I only had myself for company

[00:05:34] and I remember one night when I was 13

[00:05:38] and I'll never forget that night.

[00:05:40] I lay in bed and I tried to imagine death.

[00:05:43] Oh wow, so that is a big insight right there.

[00:05:46] Did you have an insight around it?

[00:05:48] No, look I'm just a weird bloody kid, right?

[00:05:52] How do you mean like how did you do that?

[00:05:55] Well I'll cut the story short because it's kind of long.

[00:05:59] Can you remember the bypass in Khyber Pass

[00:06:03] where there were old graves dating back to the early colonial period?

[00:06:09] I do, yeah.

[00:06:11] I forgot about it actually until you just mentioned it but yes.

[00:06:14] I was thinking about them because I used to wander around when I was young

[00:06:19] because I lived in the city

[00:06:21] and so I started with that as a reference point

[00:06:24] that I had died and there was some kind of a tombstone or whatever

[00:06:29] once where my mortal remains

[00:06:32] and then I thought well okay,

[00:06:34] my children will probably come every so often

[00:06:37] and over time it may end up in once every few years

[00:06:41] and put some flowers there or whatever

[00:06:44] and then I skipped 100 years into the future

[00:06:47] and even my grandchildren were very old

[00:06:50] and they'd forgotten about granddad

[00:06:52] and fundamentally I was just an entry in a book

[00:06:55] Births, Diff's and...

[00:06:57] It's insignificant really.

[00:07:00] Yeah I mean the body and the remains had long since deteriorated

[00:07:06] You'd become flowers and plants and stuff.

[00:07:08] Well during that period they'd also removed all the contents for a new motorway

[00:07:14] Right, okay.

[00:07:16] So nothing existed, just an entry in a book.

[00:07:20] Then a thousand years in the future

[00:07:22] the world has changed remarkably

[00:07:24] the books have been burned or whatever

[00:07:26] Were lost in a flood.

[00:07:28] Yeah and then ten thousand years in the future

[00:07:31] So you were twelve at this point?

[00:07:34] No I was thirteen.

[00:07:36] I'll never forget it

[00:07:38] and then because I'd read a lot

[00:07:41] I skipped even further

[00:07:43] So the sun exploding?

[00:07:45] A million years into the future

[00:07:47] and by that time no trace of the human race existed

[00:07:52] whatsoever on Earth

[00:07:54] and then about three billion years into the future

[00:07:56] where the sun was entering its final phase

[00:08:00] and expands

[00:08:02] This is the short version.

[00:08:04] Yeah this is the short version

[00:08:06] and the three inner planets, Mercury, Venus

[00:08:10] Swallowing up by the corona or whatever

[00:08:12] and Earth had been burned to a simmer

[00:08:15] So there were just these dead rocks

[00:08:18] and then it was about a million years after that

[00:08:20] I cried myself to sleep

[00:08:22] and oh god did I cry

[00:08:24] but funnily enough

[00:08:25] and I didn't realise this until I got much older

[00:08:28] I've never had a fear of death

[00:08:30] since that exercise that I put myself through

[00:08:33] Many people my age are struggling

[00:08:37] with the concept of mortality

[00:08:39] You can see the end of the runway

[00:08:41] Yeah well I can't see the end of the runway

[00:08:44] It's been a bloody long runway so far

[00:08:48] It's not a fear I have

[00:08:50] I just know it's going to happen

[00:08:52] and I just don't want it to be uncomfortable

[00:08:55] which is another reason why I'm a firm believer in euthanasia

[00:08:59] and have been since a kid

[00:09:02] Yeah well that's a prickly subject

[00:09:04] but I do understand if someone's in pain

[00:09:07] and suffering greatly

[00:09:08] and there's no real hope

[00:09:11] like we do with animals right

[00:09:13] we just help them out

[00:09:15] We think it's okay to do that to animals

[00:09:17] but not to humans for some reason

[00:09:19] I don't really fully get it

[00:09:21] but I agree with the air

[00:09:23] Can I just share something that you just made me think of

[00:09:25] but tell me

[00:09:26] Firstly very interesting that

[00:09:28] you had done that mental exercise

[00:09:30] it's almost like a process in a way

[00:09:32] to realise that

[00:09:34] we are really just one

[00:09:37] speck of dust

[00:09:39] floating in the middle of a vastness of space

[00:09:42] etc.

[00:09:43] We are quite insignificant

[00:09:45] and to have that at that age is pretty wild

[00:09:48] but I've listened to this podcast

[00:09:50] by a guy named Joseph Goldstein recently

[00:09:52] he's my Baba Ram Dass replacement

[00:09:55] and he was talking about

[00:09:58] I must listen to him too

[00:10:00] I've always loved Ram Dass

[00:10:02] He started with Ram Dass

[00:10:04] and he's part of the Be Here Now Foundation

[00:10:06] Wow yes

[00:10:08] So anyway he's talking about Genghis Khan

[00:10:10] I know a lot about Genghis Khan

[00:10:12] I bet you do

[00:10:14] but a terrifically successful conqueror

[00:10:16] who completely reshaped

[00:10:18] Europe and Asia

[00:10:20] with the marauding Mongrels

[00:10:22] and what have you

[00:10:24] he made such a massive impact on the world

[00:10:26] There weren't Mongrels

[00:10:28] there were Monggles

[00:10:30] I grew up with the Mongrel mob

[00:10:32] I mean they behave like Mongrels

[00:10:34] they don't get me wrong

[00:10:36] He tells the story about Genghis Khan

[00:10:38] and he goes

[00:10:40] with that in mind

[00:10:42] how often did you think of Genghis Khan today

[00:10:44] after everything he did

[00:10:46] and there's a murmur of laughter

[00:10:48] and he said

[00:10:50] even the most greatest people

[00:10:52] who have literally shaped the world

[00:10:54] and more or less not that far

[00:10:56] distant history

[00:10:58] as long as we go with the Egyptians

[00:11:00] and we've forgotten about him

[00:11:02] completely doesn't get mentioned at all

[00:11:04] so why are we so worried about

[00:11:06] what the reality is we all get forgotten

[00:11:08] at the end of the day

[00:11:10] Genghis Khan made Vlad the Impaler

[00:11:12] who came

[00:11:14] many centuries after him

[00:11:16] look like a philanthropist

[00:11:18] Right

[00:11:20] pretty brutal times

[00:11:22] these people were merciless

[00:11:24] and the value of life must have just been

[00:11:26] basically worthless right

[00:11:28] One of the stories about Genghis Khan

[00:11:30] is that

[00:11:32] he conquered an army in a particular location

[00:11:34] took them as slaves

[00:11:36] and they burnt

[00:11:38] the eyes out of several hundred

[00:11:40] men and they chained them together

[00:11:42] and they marched them

[00:11:44] Right

[00:11:46] to their ultimate slave destination

[00:11:48] now that's not someone to be admired

[00:11:50] No, so don't get me wrong

[00:11:52] I'm not talking about admiring anyone here

[00:11:54] but in terms of

[00:11:56] I guess what you told me about

[00:11:58] zooming forward and having the sun swallow the earth

[00:12:00] and then we have this

[00:12:02] the ego that we walk around with thinking we're special

[00:12:04] and that we should

[00:12:06] and we gotta be

[00:12:08] people so worried about

[00:12:10] what are they thinking of me

[00:12:12] and everything

[00:12:14] my image

[00:12:16] and then it's like well

[00:12:18] believe me no one really cares right

[00:12:20] It's the universe doesn't give a rat

[00:12:22] I don't give a shit

[00:12:24] it's just you

[00:12:26] and your pathetic little ego

[00:12:28] thinking you're the center of your own universe

[00:12:30] and so look yes

[00:12:32] I just came to mind when you were sharing that

[00:12:34] that you'll get forgotten

[00:12:36] but anyway

[00:12:38] talk to me more because you did mention last episode

[00:12:40] about transitions

[00:12:42] and how your life had been a series of transitions

[00:12:44] was that one of them?

[00:12:46] Yes it was

[00:12:48] I didn't realize how formative it was

[00:12:50] and that impact that was upon my

[00:12:52] relationships with other young people

[00:12:54] you know how you're so conscious

[00:12:56] of

[00:12:58] becoming part of your peer group

[00:13:00] and particularly

[00:13:02] teenage parties with young girls

[00:13:04] and so forth I was a very

[00:13:06] late developer because

[00:13:08] I thought everybody wanted to talk about life death

[00:13:10] in the universe

[00:13:12] and they didn't they just wanted to dance

[00:13:14] to rock and roll and do

[00:13:16] what the hormones

[00:13:18] dictate. Right

[00:13:20] yeah okay so

[00:13:22] you did mention that last episode just about

[00:13:24] that awkwardness I guess I think I actually called

[00:13:26] that segment of it awkward dad

[00:13:28] just like stumbling through

[00:13:30] that sort of trying to have conversations

[00:13:32] with people who aren't really on the same wavelength

[00:13:34] as you were. No brothers

[00:13:36] and sisters so I didn't know how

[00:13:38] to do it. It must not be uncommon

[00:13:40] Actually I've never thought

[00:13:42] outside my own paradigm but now that you

[00:13:44] mention it son I

[00:13:46] guess there are other young people

[00:13:48] who have difficulty connecting

[00:13:50] because they haven't had

[00:13:52] the tit for tat

[00:13:54] exchanges which go

[00:13:56] with having siblings.

[00:13:58] Yeah I have looked at

[00:14:00] the whole birth order

[00:14:02] pseudoscience they call it

[00:14:04] before where

[00:14:06] the oldest child is bestowed more responsibility

[00:14:08] younger age often has to look on the younger

[00:14:10] children so it's used to responsibility

[00:14:12] becomes more likely

[00:14:14] to be a leader or

[00:14:16] what have you whereas the younger child

[00:14:18] I know what it's like having

[00:14:20] a few kids younger child like he's coughing

[00:14:22] with the oldest child it's like

[00:14:24] you've got a little cough it's like oh my god let's keep him home from school

[00:14:26] and give

[00:14:28] him some cough medicine and go take him to the doctor

[00:14:30] in the hospital where there's third child

[00:14:32] your fourth child's coughing you're like

[00:14:34] you be right champ you know

[00:14:36] you'll sort yourself out

[00:14:38] It's part of the process

[00:14:40] if you start coughing blood

[00:14:42] we'll head to the ER but otherwise

[00:14:44] so there is

[00:14:46] a different demand set for

[00:14:48] the older kids versus

[00:14:50] the middle child versus the younger child

[00:14:52] but for an only child

[00:14:54] you miss a lot of that

[00:14:56] it's all full

[00:14:58] download from the parents isn't it

[00:15:00] for the first dozen or so years

[00:15:02] Yes very much so

[00:15:04] which is the reason why when I was

[00:15:06] 18 I had to leave home even though

[00:15:08] I was on a cushy number

[00:15:10] only child my parents

[00:15:12] looking after me etc

[00:15:14] the psychological pressures were

[00:15:16] just too enormous

[00:15:18] and I had a girlfriend

[00:15:20] at the time and she helped me

[00:15:22] facilitate that

[00:15:24] The Me In Him podcast

[00:15:26] Well I have been curious

[00:15:28] dad about that time

[00:15:30] I guess going to university

[00:15:32] and your life around there

[00:15:34] and I don't know a lot about it

[00:15:36] but you did mention just then

[00:15:38] about escaping home with the help of

[00:15:40] female accomplice

[00:15:42] a girlfriend

[00:15:44] tell me a little bit more

[00:15:46] about that put some colour around that

[00:15:48] Well we met at university

[00:15:50] and I

[00:15:52] was studying

[00:15:54] on my first year chemistry

[00:15:56] mathematics applied mathematics

[00:15:58] physics you know the usual

[00:16:00] Really interesting

[00:16:02] and I decided to do a second degree

[00:16:04] because I had this

[00:16:06] feeling that came from nowhere

[00:16:08] that the world needed generalists

[00:16:10] and remember we were moving into

[00:16:12] the early 60s

[00:16:14] at that point

[00:16:16] and I thought people who were

[00:16:18] qualified in at least

[00:16:20] two different dimensions

[00:16:22] have an ability to look

[00:16:24] outside the box

[00:16:26] I totally agree with that

[00:16:28] That's something Elon Musk talks about

[00:16:30] you know mastering two different

[00:16:32] occupations

[00:16:34] So I took a second degree

[00:16:36] at the same time this was in my second

[00:16:38] year and I worked out

[00:16:40] actually if I continued

[00:16:42] passing my papers

[00:16:44] that I could get two

[00:16:46] master its in the

[00:16:48] five years that is normally allocated

[00:16:50] for one. I failed

[00:16:52] because I got involved with

[00:16:54] student life

[00:16:56] and you know

[00:16:58] sex and drugs and rock on the wall

[00:17:00] Oh you finally got there

[00:17:02] I was wondering where that was coming from

[00:17:04] Well yeah I had to mature at some point

[00:17:06] You know lose your way

[00:17:08] straight from the path

[00:17:10] but the second degree I had in mind

[00:17:12] was psychology

[00:17:14] I couldn't do that because it clashed

[00:17:16] with my laboratory

[00:17:18] periods for physics and chemistry

[00:17:20] so I ended up doing philosophy which

[00:17:22] is the best thing which could have happened to me

[00:17:24] because retrospectively

[00:17:26] as an older male

[00:17:28] I realized that

[00:17:30] my need to take

[00:17:32] my desire to take

[00:17:34] psychology was because

[00:17:36] I knew subconsciously

[00:17:38] I was fractured inside

[00:17:40] and I thought

[00:17:42] by learning how to heal other people

[00:17:44] I could heal myself

[00:17:46] Wouldn't they say teach

[00:17:48] what you most need to learn

[00:17:50] or something like that

[00:17:52] Anyway it didn't

[00:17:54] happen and I had to do the hard

[00:17:56] yards myself

[00:17:58] and the various ladies in my life

[00:18:00] were very helpful

[00:18:02] and I had them a great debt

[00:18:04] So how did this girlfriend

[00:18:06] help you get out of that situation

[00:18:08] Well we started

[00:18:10] Fall in Love as you do at that age

[00:18:12] and

[00:18:14] she realized

[00:18:16] how

[00:18:18] negative

[00:18:20] an influence my father

[00:18:22] was

[00:18:24] and he was in a sense crushing me psychologically

[00:18:28] I didn't realize how bad it was

[00:18:30] remember I was an only child

[00:18:32] I didn't have any other reference points

[00:18:34] So with her assistance

[00:18:36] I

[00:18:38] with her

[00:18:40] helping me

[00:18:42] gain the courage

[00:18:44] to make the move

[00:18:46] I did it

[00:18:48] and it was the best thing that

[00:18:50] ever happened to me although

[00:18:52] instead of being

[00:18:54] provided for by my parents

[00:18:56] and living with my parents

[00:18:58] and going to university

[00:19:00] and

[00:19:02] being looked after

[00:19:04] I had to look after myself

[00:19:06] and that meant I took a job

[00:19:08] late at night

[00:19:10] way after university

[00:19:12] I started midnight

[00:19:14] in the circulation department of one of the big

[00:19:16] newspapers

[00:19:18] at midnight so what were the hours

[00:19:20] I meant not to win

[00:19:22] Normally midnight to three

[00:19:24] but on Tuesday night

[00:19:26] because of the weekly news which came out

[00:19:28] which is

[00:19:30] a national magazine

[00:19:32] that was distributed

[00:19:34] right through the country

[00:19:36] we would work through till

[00:19:38] about 10 am

[00:19:40] sometimes

[00:19:42] midday the next day

[00:19:44] and so your studies just fitted around that or something

[00:19:46] No I just went straight to university

[00:19:48] I mean there was a period

[00:19:50] where in the middle of summer

[00:19:52] wearing corduroy trousers

[00:19:54] which were the fashion in those days

[00:19:56] having a t-shirt underneath

[00:19:58] a shirt underneath a jersey

[00:20:00] underneath an overcoat

[00:20:02] I was wondering

[00:20:04] around in the middle of the day

[00:20:06] shivering

[00:20:08] because of the sleep deprivation

[00:20:10] I mean sometimes they go three days without sleep

[00:20:12] Yeah well

[00:20:14] unfortunately you haven't changed too much

[00:20:16] it's just one day now

[00:20:18] as you've gone

[00:20:20] I know I'm so old I mean

[00:20:22] I've lost it son

[00:20:24] it's time I gotta go

[00:20:26] well you'll be able to sleep forever since don't worry too much

[00:20:28] so can I

[00:20:30] just interject here

[00:20:32] I wanted to share something similar to Vane

[00:20:34] you know this quite well

[00:20:36] because I was working

[00:20:38] for you

[00:20:40] being the bastion

[00:20:42] of bad habits I was working for you

[00:20:44] as a bartender at Martha's Corner

[00:20:46] which was a jazz cafe that you

[00:20:48] ran and

[00:20:50] you built basically

[00:20:52] Well I owned it

[00:20:54] and I didn't realise you were giving all your mates free drinks

[00:20:56] Yeah you keep saying that

[00:20:58] but no I think that came later

[00:21:00] that was down when you had the Bratt Night Club

[00:21:02] where I was giving them free drinks by the way

[00:21:04] but anyways so back to Martha's Corner

[00:21:06] So it's confession time

[00:21:08] Yeah I remember when the black Russians

[00:21:10] I discovered black Russians

[00:21:12] where I was like

[00:21:14] okay so you've got vodka which is a hard liquor

[00:21:16] with some kluw which makes it sort of sweet

[00:21:18] and tasty with some coke which is also sweet

[00:21:20] and it goes down like lolly water

[00:21:22] and it gets you hammered

[00:21:24] I'm like yeah I'll get one of them for me

[00:21:26] and three for my mates

[00:21:28] and yeah I'm sure when you got the bill

[00:21:30] you were horrified at the fact also

[00:21:32] I was underage as well

[00:21:34] so yeah lots to

[00:21:36] I was even more horrified

[00:21:38] Yeah anyway I won't try to get you into

[00:21:40] too much more trouble but

[00:21:42] next door to Martha's Cafe

[00:21:44] was another I think it was Italian restaurant

[00:21:46] I can't remember I was up there

[00:21:48] on Victoria Street it was another restaurant

[00:21:50] but a connecting door to

[00:21:52] right and anyway that's where

[00:21:54] I met one of my first

[00:21:56] major loves

[00:21:58] a girl named Laurel

[00:22:00] and she and I became

[00:22:02] fast friends

[00:22:04] Yeah she was awesome

[00:22:06] She was a lovely girl

[00:22:08] So we

[00:22:10] started going out

[00:22:12] and sort of became a boyfriend-girlfriend

[00:22:14] and it wasn't until

[00:22:16] we had had that relationship

[00:22:18] that I got the courage to go

[00:22:20] cause I was already living out of home

[00:22:22] I think at that age or not quite actually

[00:22:24] at that age maybe I shifted out I think

[00:22:26] when I was 17

[00:22:28] but after being with her for a while

[00:22:30] that's where I got the courage to go

[00:22:32] I don't need to leave this country

[00:22:34] I need to go travelling

[00:22:36] but I didn't want to do it on my own

[00:22:38] I wasn't one of these people who could just

[00:22:40] pack and disappear and

[00:22:42] travel the world

[00:22:44] like a number of people I know

[00:22:46] and it just was a perfect opportunity

[00:22:48] so we then

[00:22:50] escaped I guess the situation

[00:22:52] that was Auckland City in those

[00:22:54] times it certainly wasn't yielding

[00:22:56] much for me and

[00:22:58] you know started a

[00:23:00] I guess a new life over here

[00:23:02] I mean we didn't last for more than a year or two

[00:23:04] I think after that but the reality was

[00:23:06] that she helped me make that shift

[00:23:08] I guess as well that was the point I was making

[00:23:10] and sometimes you do need someone to

[00:23:12] give you a reason or a nowsaw

[00:23:14] to see things where they are or

[00:23:16] you know in your case obviously it was

[00:23:18] escaping a dysfunctional family

[00:23:20] dynamic mine was more just

[00:23:22] I needed to get out of that place

[00:23:24] to sort of I guess

[00:23:26] find myself a little bit or spread yourself

[00:23:28] around yeah or learn

[00:23:30] some lessons and certainly well that was the beginning

[00:23:32] of a lot of different lessons I guess

[00:23:34] so you know it's got a hundred years

[00:23:36] with a podcast now one but

[00:23:38] but yeah so that was my story

[00:23:40] so talk to me more then about

[00:23:42] getting through uni or uni life

[00:23:44] you know if you had to look after yourself

[00:23:46] you're saying you had to balance the job

[00:23:48] the studies big degree

[00:23:50] it was very interesting

[00:23:52] I mean you got your degree in the end didn't you

[00:23:54] you got both of them yeah

[00:23:56] it took a while okay

[00:23:58] it took much longer than I anticipated

[00:24:00] because you know

[00:24:02] life has these interesting twists and turns

[00:24:04] there's a suburb

[00:24:06] in Auckland which was my home

[00:24:08] called Mount Eden and at that stage

[00:24:10] Mount Eden was fairly run down

[00:24:12] but there were big old

[00:24:14] houses

[00:24:16] that people of influence used

[00:24:18] to have before they moved

[00:24:20] to another more elite area

[00:24:22] and

[00:24:24] three of us took a five

[00:24:26] bedroomed house

[00:24:28] and we had some

[00:24:30] amazing parties

[00:24:32] I knew that's where that was going

[00:24:34] I just knew that

[00:24:36] so when you say amazing parties

[00:24:38] the biggest one of all

[00:24:40] there were so many people there

[00:24:42] that I

[00:24:44] in order to move

[00:24:46] from one part

[00:24:48] of one room

[00:24:50] to another

[00:24:52] I had to climb out of a window

[00:24:54] walk along the outside of the house

[00:24:56] and open the window

[00:24:58] well the windows were open because there were so many people

[00:25:00] and crawl in

[00:25:02] and see what was going on

[00:25:04] I can just

[00:25:06] visualize that to be honest

[00:25:08] and this was my party

[00:25:10] but

[00:25:12] the word had spread because

[00:25:14] it was during

[00:25:16] university capping

[00:25:18] where the three main universities

[00:25:20] in the North Island

[00:25:22] came together

[00:25:24] on a rotational basis

[00:25:26] and

[00:25:28] had sporting contests

[00:25:30] and drinking contests

[00:25:32] and all that sort of thing

[00:25:34] and the word had gone out

[00:25:36] so at age

[00:25:38] I must have been about

[00:25:40] 19 at that stage

[00:25:42] that was when I met your mother

[00:25:44] Midnight I called the cops

[00:25:46] on my own party

[00:25:48] in my own house

[00:25:50] or my own rental

[00:25:52] days before you could send text messages

[00:25:54] out or social media sharing the invite

[00:25:56] it was just word of mouth

[00:25:58] whole school not even

[00:26:00] word of mouth was very powerful

[00:26:02] and

[00:26:04] they came and I identified myself

[00:26:06] I said I'm the guy

[00:26:08] who has the lease

[00:26:10] here

[00:26:12] this is uncontrollable

[00:26:14] uncontrollable

[00:26:16] let's break it up

[00:26:18] which we did

[00:26:20] and when the bottle hose came

[00:26:22] the next day because

[00:26:24] there used to be a service

[00:26:26] with a truck

[00:26:28] and they'd pick up all the bottles

[00:26:30] it was the beer bottles

[00:26:32] they got

[00:26:34] 140 dozen

[00:26:36] bottles

[00:26:38] of the old fashioned

[00:26:40] court size bottles of beer

[00:26:42] like once of once war is

[00:26:44] and that was not

[00:26:46] counting

[00:26:48] the sea of

[00:26:50] wine bottles

[00:26:52] and a spirit bottles

[00:26:54] well and here we are

[00:26:56] celebrating 80 U turning 80

[00:26:58] amazing you made it

[00:27:00] how did I get here

[00:27:02] how did I survive my life

[00:27:04] well that's cool

[00:27:09] I like that

[00:27:11] that gives me a bit of an understanding

[00:27:13] not so much about your spent youth

[00:27:15] but just the environment there

[00:27:17] and the high jinks

[00:27:19] and also I guess the industriousness

[00:27:21] to actually continue to keep focused

[00:27:23] to get a degree

[00:27:25] you did better than me in that regard

[00:27:27] I got into hospitality

[00:27:29] it's just no non-common story

[00:27:31] yeah well I set you a bad example again son

[00:27:33] well it wasn't your example

[00:27:35] we're all responsible sentient human beings

[00:27:37] right and we've got to make decisions

[00:27:39] for ourselves so

[00:27:41] oh that's so cliche it's unbelievable

[00:27:43] yeah well I keep telling myself that

[00:27:45] hopefully one day I'll believe it

[00:27:47] I mean it's true but I mean

[00:27:49] people tend to trot it out

[00:27:51] an excuse

[00:27:53] well I'm looking forward to going into

[00:27:55] the next section

[00:27:57] emails from dad

[00:27:59] emails from dad

[00:28:03] so I mentioned last episode that I had

[00:28:05] managed to unencrypt is that a word

[00:28:07] or decrypt the files

[00:28:09] that I couldn't get into and find

[00:28:11] the stored emails from dad the treasure trove

[00:28:13] of old emails that I

[00:28:15] oh wow thank god

[00:28:17] they're not lost forever

[00:28:19] yeah that's right like

[00:28:21] like Atlantis you know I found them

[00:28:23] and I was looking through

[00:28:25] them all well obviously I was looking through them just talking to you earlier and one

[00:28:29] popped up that had the

[00:28:31] actual subject father in it I thought I'll open this one up

[00:28:33] because they're all IPDF them all

[00:28:35] this one's from April the 13th

[00:28:37] 2021 so

[00:28:39] a few years ago now

[00:28:41] and I got to admit

[00:28:43] I don't know if I read it or if I did read

[00:28:45] it I didn't follow it up but it was

[00:28:47] about

[00:28:49] you wrote here a well-deserved Oscar

[00:28:51] nomination for Anthony Hopkins starring

[00:28:53] as Anthony and elderly father

[00:28:55] suffering from dementia and then you just had

[00:28:57] a couple of lines about how great it was

[00:28:59] and I thought oh this

[00:29:01] ties into the topic of our podcast so

[00:29:03] and I haven't seen it

[00:29:05] either so tell me about this movie

[00:29:07] well you should see it son

[00:29:09] not to

[00:29:11] assist the father's

[00:29:13] son dialogue

[00:29:15] but to gain an understanding

[00:29:17] of a disease which is

[00:29:19] hideously transforming

[00:29:21] and killing so many

[00:29:23] elderly persons and funny enough

[00:29:25] it's not just elderly but

[00:29:27] it's the highest percentage

[00:29:29] are you know mature people and that's dementia

[00:29:31] hmm

[00:29:33] pretty much just the brain like

[00:29:35] shrinking isn't it and being

[00:29:37] like basically rot rotting I don't

[00:29:39] know the actual physiological

[00:29:41] process of son but

[00:29:43] is a deterioration of the brain

[00:29:45] whereby you

[00:29:47] in the early stages your memory

[00:29:49] goes with respect to

[00:29:51] you know things like family members

[00:29:53] and so forth what you did yesterday

[00:29:55] your thinking patterns shrink

[00:29:57] and in its worst form

[00:29:59] and I've had two or three friends die from this

[00:30:01] you have no control over your bodily functions

[00:30:03] and you die an awful

[00:30:05] messy, sad

[00:30:07] disgustingly

[00:30:09] horrible hits your stance on euthanasia

[00:30:11] I guess in those situations

[00:30:13] yeah no moe euthanasia

[00:30:15] I'm not going to say

[00:30:17] I agree it applies

[00:30:19] but you see

[00:30:21] people with in the advanced stages

[00:30:23] of dementia don't know

[00:30:25] they're critical

[00:30:27] of thinking faculty

[00:30:29] shrinks to zero

[00:30:31] and the power of the movie

[00:30:33] was that Anthony

[00:30:35] Hopkins is the father

[00:30:37] in this particular situation

[00:30:39] and he's suffering from dementia

[00:30:41] and what happens

[00:30:43] the first part of the movie

[00:30:45] I'm not going to spoil it for anyone

[00:30:47] is his daughter's looking after him

[00:30:49] and they have

[00:30:51] a

[00:30:53] caring relationship

[00:30:55] in the sense that she helps care for him as well

[00:30:57] and that's fine for about 10 minutes

[00:30:59] then all of a sudden

[00:31:01] it just shifts

[00:31:03] bingo it's like

[00:31:05] a different movie but with the same people

[00:31:07] and they have different

[00:31:09] relationships like she's married at this point

[00:31:11] and

[00:31:13] he's feeling kind of left out and so forth

[00:31:15] and it wasn't until

[00:31:17] the second shift

[00:31:19] finished

[00:31:21] that the penny dropped in my head

[00:31:23] this movie

[00:31:25] has been directed

[00:31:27] and focused from inside

[00:31:29] his head

[00:31:31] and is showing us

[00:31:33] his reality

[00:31:35] and his reality

[00:31:37] shifts

[00:31:39] as the disease progresses

[00:31:41] wow it's pretty good filmmaking

[00:31:43] and that's the power of it

[00:31:45] and then you really

[00:31:47] understand the last half

[00:31:49] okay

[00:31:51] brilliant actor

[00:31:53] it's kind of like what was the one where ICDED people

[00:31:55] you know the

[00:31:57] Bruce, I think it's Bruce Willis

[00:31:59] in it

[00:32:01] the name eludes me but

[00:32:03] the whole time you're watching the movie and then you realize

[00:32:05] at the end

[00:32:07] it's seeing

[00:32:09] the guy who's the protagonist

[00:32:11] and he's actually the one who's dead

[00:32:13] and he was the ghost and it flips it

[00:32:15] around completely

[00:32:17] that's a great, well I'm glad I found that email dad

[00:32:19] because I'm going to

[00:32:21] watch that maybe even tonight

[00:32:23] I always love good recommendation

[00:32:25] and I'm still a bit dusty so

[00:32:27] it's a wonderful movie son

[00:32:29] and it's incredibly powerful

[00:32:31] and it's insightful

[00:32:33] you learn an enormous amount

[00:32:35] brilliant

[00:32:37] alright thanks for that, that was a pretty

[00:32:39] helpful email

[00:32:41] the me in him podcast

[00:32:43] well it's been great

[00:32:45] chatting again dad and I'm going to

[00:32:47] head out and maybe have a bike ride now

[00:32:49] what are you up to for the rest of the day

[00:32:51] I've got a friend coming around

[00:32:53] with my fancy

[00:32:55] turntable and fortunately

[00:32:57] he's a bit of a guru so

[00:32:59] he can fix some of my electronic problems

[00:33:01] yeah good, he got

[00:33:03] a new camera and stuff so

[00:33:05] I'm going to be interested to see how that looks

[00:33:07] and let me know because I might get one myself

[00:33:09] because we're going to be on tiktok

[00:33:11] it wasn't cheap

[00:33:13] but it was the best one

[00:33:15] that they had

[00:33:17] and I've got a friend who works in japan

[00:33:19] when you say it wasn't cheap, how much?

[00:33:21] over $200

[00:33:23] $200 webcam, Jesus

[00:33:25] fancy, alright well I'll be interested

[00:33:27] to see how that goes so

[00:33:29] we're going to catch up again

[00:33:31] and do another one of these tomorrow

[00:33:33] recommendation for the movie, I appreciate that

[00:33:35] glad I found that because that's going to be my night

[00:33:37] tonight and also

[00:33:39] interesting just to hear about

[00:33:41] that period of your life

[00:33:43] getting into uni, I think next

[00:33:45] episode we're really up to mum

[00:33:47] aren't we, how you guys met and all the rest of it

[00:33:49] yeah I mean we're right up to

[00:33:51] when I met your mother

[00:33:53] cool and we've got to keep it

[00:33:55] keep it PC right, we've got to

[00:33:57] only tell the proof stories

[00:33:59] oh no I'm going to give you all the

[00:34:01] story details

[00:34:03] I really want to shock my family

[00:34:05] yeah well mum might be listening

[00:34:07] to this right so we'll just

[00:34:09] oh no no I'm not going to do it

[00:34:11] no that's alright, I know you'll be

[00:34:13] kind and obviously that was

[00:34:15] such an important part of your life

[00:34:17] and hey shit that's where I'm here

[00:34:19] so I'm grateful

[00:34:21] okay well you enjoy

[00:34:23] your visit from your mate

[00:34:25] your electronic stuff, I'm going to take a bike ride

[00:34:27] and we'll catch up with you soon

[00:34:29] look forward to this son, thank you