Ep9: The Booze Episode

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_01]: The Me and Him Podcast

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey Dad, how you going?

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Not too bad son, it's been a very busy weekend.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what have you been up to?

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's the intro.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't get started on one of your stories.

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: There's an infinity of things.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I'm sure.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Put it in the email, but for this keep it like, give it some pace.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Well I've got a declutter, so I started the decluttering on Saturday.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I bumped an audio appointment and two friends came around

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and we probably went through 50 kilograms of spare and duplicate audio equipment that I've got.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. You know you're talking about the story three times an each time, it's going up 10 kilos.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's cool, it'll be 100 kilos soon.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Hang on, I might have told you that story three times.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh but you're reassessing the actual weight of it?

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_00]: No, but our thousands of listeners haven't heard it before.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't got 100 yet Dad, we're still 90 something.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, come on, where's that other person we can force to listen to this?

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I've got the declutter.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Well good on you, I'm proud of you actually.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: When you told me I thought that was awesome that you started off that stuff

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: because I've been in that room and there's a lot of audio trinkets and bolts and I don't know what's in there.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: There were boxes under the bed that you've never seen.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were chock-a-block with all kinds of wires and specialist equipment.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean I'm glad that there's a process underway,

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to be moving out of your place etc etc.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think we'll tell the story as we go, but right now it's declutter mode, right?

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll be continuing decluttering probably because you've got so much.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Well the final decluttering will be putting me in the box.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: If you need your LPs, declutter them.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I can help out, I'll fly down there especially.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll actually organize a container ship or something to bring the LPs up.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, you're right the final piece is...

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, so that's enough about you.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll let me tell you what I was up to on Saturday night.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I had a date.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You had a date?

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you mean someone's actually attracted to you?

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know yet.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got to find out.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We just went out and had a quiet drink or two and a bite.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And just interesting, this is a lovely young lady and funny enough she helps out or she's one of the workers at where Mum lives.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is the independent living or retirement village sort of thing.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, we had a chat and it made me think afterwards I'm thinking she's quite an attractive girl

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and who knows you've got to meet people to develop relationships etc.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But it made me think in my age now, I'm post 50.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm 35 but I'm actually 53, which is like the opposite way around.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm upside down right now.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm 80 and I feel like I'm 45.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you can't do that upside down.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You'd be eight otherwise.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, so I thought I was thinking about, oh yeah, it's just quite nice and everything.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, dating is so fucking hard when you're post 50.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And but then I started a language young man.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: No, yeah, no, it's my podcast.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I can do it with the fuck I want.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh really?

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You sound like a rapper now.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, the long and short of it was that this lady had a really stable family background

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and was doing the right things.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Had to look after her kids and working hard and just a good person.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought to myself, well, how am I filters have changed as I've got older?

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just looking at character and stability and kindness and just someone I can relate to, you know.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of the all the razz, jazz, pizzazz and all the rest of it, you know, is gone and it's more,

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to make a longer term decision here if I'm going to date someone seriously.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like otherwise have some fun, whatever, you know.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was interesting.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I had this date and it made me just think the next day, you know, about what I really want

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and where I'm going and the nature of relationships.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's been interesting.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll have to talk about that at length some of the time.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Well, I'm not going to spill all the juicy details.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I didn't mean you.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. I mean, this is this is a broad topic of interest to all men.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Well, look, I'll tell you what, I agree.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that again, we've got that many episodes already earmarked is unbelievable.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But just before just before we get into more of your story, I want to say,

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to say a couple of quick things and I want to say two words.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Likewise.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for being on this podcast, Dad.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Likewise, son.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: How good is this to do this together?

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Well, I'm still alive.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very important.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Well, I want to say I love you and I appreciate the fact that we're doing this

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and let's get on some good and some other stuff.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I've always loved you, son.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: The Meet in Him podcast.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, last episode, we were talking about how your mum and I originally got together.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. I remember the backseat of the hold on or whatever.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: No, we held hands, right?

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I tell you this.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: This be really PC about this.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Yeah. Remember that.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to share an anecdote with you.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: We were typical 20 year olds doing what 20 year olds have always done

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and certainly are doing today.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Keeping the human species alive, sustained.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And your mother had a flat with some girls, which was in a,

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_00]: at that point in time, a depressed area, but a lot of the city was depressed anyway.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And she, I was her boyfriend, so I stayed over a few nights.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And what frightened the bejesus out of me was it was a small backyard

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and there was a huge mounded area upon which were train tracks

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and the diesel engine trains of the time ran day and night.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. Okay.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, during the day when you're up and there's, you know, you're playing music.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of romantic sort of thing, I guess.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You're doing the, you know, what young people do.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You ignored it.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But I found the first few nights I was awoken by the sound which was very loud.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was a young person who liked loud music at Rock Concerts anyway.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: This was damn loud.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And the wooden house actually shaking.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, your mother, who was my girlfriend at the time,

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, how the hell do you manage to sleep through this?

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, you get used to it.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly right.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I learned from that challenging experience that the power of the human subconscious,

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it can actually filter out extraneous noise, no matter how loud,

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: when you have your mind set on something else, which includes...

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Your attention just moves to the place you want it, which is not on this thing,

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: not on this disruption to your piece.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: After a while, you don't hear the damn thing, even though the house is still shaking.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It's crazy.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It was an extraordinary lesson in the power of the human subconscious.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So look, we've come up to the point where I guess you and I got together.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, this isn't so much meant to be a long family history.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just more painting a bit of a timeline and hearing some of the stories of the era

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and also understanding lineage and relationships in my family.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a bit of a mixer of all of that stuff, right?

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But I guess what I'm interested in is your experience becoming a father,

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: because obviously that happened with Mum.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And I know what it was for me.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I know what I...

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I know how ill-equipped I felt, right?

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to understand just basically on everything you've told me,

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: your upbringing, your childhood meeting Mum,

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: how did that come around and also how did it impact you?

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we probably haven't got time to get to Father Horde just yet

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because we've got to talk about getting married.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We were in love and we wanted to get married

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and do all the things that you do when you're setting up a house for a family.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But your mother wanted it to be much sooner than I had anticipated.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: What used to happen with...

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_02]: That's generally the way I think with women.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, guys like, can we just hold off now?

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You summed it up, son.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I said, look, I'm happy to get engaged.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I'll be faithful to you, but it's a long engagement

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: because the paradigm at university those days was that guys would get their degree

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they'd go off to the Atlas Mountains and whatnot

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they'd end up in the Earl's Court and they'd get some experience of life.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they'd come back with a degree and they'd get a good job,

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: they'd settle down and they'd prepare for the next stage of their life,

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: which is marriage and a family.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well I kind of see the downside for a woman, a lady

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: who is being told, hey, I just want to go and travel the world

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and have some fun and then I'll come back and we'll get married.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't sound that enticing.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't go down very well, I can tell you that.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I can imagine.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was stuck because I was in love with her

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and I didn't know what to do.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And one day there was a pub across the road from the university

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: called The Grand Hotel and I went there and it was down in the back bar

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and I bumped into a guy who taught me French in high school

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and we said hi because he recognised me and I recognised him

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and he was at least 10 to 12 or maybe 10 to 15 years older than me

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and he said, you look a bit glum.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, well, I'm trying to figure this thing out

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and he said what thing and I told him my story

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and he said, look, I can't advise you, it's your life,

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: you have to make your own decisions

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: but if it'll be of any help to you, I'll tell you my story.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and sorry, I don't know what you're going to say

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: but I can tell you this, sharing your experience

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: is so much better than giving advice.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm interested.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he said, I got my masters in French

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and I got the opportunity to study at the Sorbonne in France

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and while I was there, I met the woman of my dreams.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: She was gracious, she was intelligent, she was beautiful.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: She was everything I could ever have wanted and we clicked.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: There was only one small problem.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: What was that?

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_00]: She was married.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that never came to be, not even within fidelity

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and he said to me, it's the case that at your age

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_00]: the available pool of attractive, lovely girls

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: who want to fall in love and get married is very large.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: By the time you get to my age, it shrinks an enormous amount.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to...

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You're all getting married, have kids.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: All the good ones are already gone.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: He broke one's left.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I wasn't implying that.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That's sorry, that was my bad.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Especially in this modern world.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Women will wait until 40 to have a baby.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want a whole lot of female warriors hunting us down.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_02]: No, so look, what you're saying is what was the prognosis then?

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I decided he's right.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Damn it, I'll get married and we got married at the age of 21.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Which even for those days was pretty young.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's still young.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Dad, it's your... maybe in the country.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for sharing that.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I love this journey.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I love hearing about these little stories

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and the little house near the railroad tracks.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God, it's very romantic.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But I did want to...

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to pivot this episode

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: to address a very serious subject,

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: a subject that is important to me

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and I know we've talked about.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the subject of booze.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: See you in him podcast.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You know how I said I was going out on a date on Saturday, right?

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I hadn't drunk all that week, right?

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Because the week before,

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I swore I wasn't going to drink during the week

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and then like came Tuesday, I'm like, fuck it.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting by the wine.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, my wheel, wheel pal was gone.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And then by the time it came to Friday,

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't eat much or whatever.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I had another few glass of wine.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I woke up Saturday with a hangover.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, you know what?

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Fuck this, I'm done.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm stopping booze for a while again

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: because I'd given up like for a few months

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: beforehand before your party, right?

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, so I decided I didn't drink that week

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and then I had a visit with my therapist

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: due on the Saturday, right?

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said to her, I thought, you know what?

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk about it.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going out on a date tonight

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and I don't really want to drink

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: because I'm told myself I shouldn't be drinking,

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: but I wouldn't mind having a drink with her.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So I thought, I'll use this guy's time

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_02]: to get some advice.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And he gave me the best advice dad.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what he said?

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: He goes, I said, look,

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_02]: he goes, talk to me about this dilemma you're facing.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, it's like there's one good guy,

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_02]: like an angel on one shoulder saying, hey,

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah, better not to drink, Jase.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Save some money.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Look after your health.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You'll be fine.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't need to drink.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You've drunk for ages.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You're fine.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't sound like you, son.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And the other one on the other shoulder going,

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: come on, you're going out.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You deserve it.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, that's you.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That's you.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm here to make this.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like this battle of two polar opposites.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And he goes, well, what does the CEO have to say about that?

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, what do you mean CEO?

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_02]: The person who's running the shop, you know,

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you're listening.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, who's the boss here?

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You've got these workers pulling each way.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's pulling the best?

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's making the decision based on the advice available to him?

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_02]: He goes, isn't it possible to go out,

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: have a couple of drinks

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're not drinking after that

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'll drink during the week?

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's making the decisions here?

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just made me realize I'd outsourced

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: some sort of my desire to drink or not to drink

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: into these two separate entities

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that I felt I couldn't govern.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And he put the CEO on top of them going,

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: basically like you can actually make a decision

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: on what you want to do here.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And just a little bit of decision making prowess

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and willpower, you'll be fine.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So I went out.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You're the one who created the entities and the first place?

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So I went out, I had a couple of drinks, got home,

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: was able to drive home and I was fine.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just, it was interesting to me

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: that I created this drama around drinking or not drinking

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and the reality is he's right.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, where's the CEO?

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's running the shop here?

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, that's my little intro

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: to alcohol and booze in a way

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: because it is a subject that's worthy of deeper discussion.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a huge part of a lot of people's lives.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It has been mine, I know it's yours.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And it has a huge effect on not just the economy,

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the health system and in the case of many of those

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: dreadfully unfortunate victims of domestic violence.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Booze plays a part there too.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a huge part.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a very strong causal link

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: between alcohol-related violence, domestic abuse.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very sad and I, to some degree on the reason

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got these two guys on both of my shoulders is

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: on one hand I know the truth.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I was an RSA trainer.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I was one of the first people in Australia

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to train responsible service of alcohol

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: which was one of the early programs in the world,

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_02]: probably not far after the UK.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I had to chuckle.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And not only did I admire you,

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_00]: but I thought the incongruity of my son teaching responsible.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Dad, I was, yeah, I know.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes you teach what you most need to learn.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: All right?

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That's my excuse.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a fair call.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But the funny thing is, on that note,

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you a quick story.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I was, here's me, I'm like,

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, I've got a trainer's geek

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: because I was kind of a hospitality guy,

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: a club guy, what have you.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've got a job as a trainer of these,

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and there's this new course, Art Responsible Service,

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that I'll call, who's the first cohort they want to train?

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: All of the old hoteliers.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So they get this guy and young guy in an awkward fitting suit

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: who is sitting down with a room full of 70-year-old

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: publicans who have been drinking at the bar

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: all day every day with the cops for the last 30 years.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And the first thing they're thinking is,

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: who's this little guy?

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's this upstart.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I got to tell you, that taught me,

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that taught me how to present to a hostile crowd.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I could just imagine it.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, in those days,

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: publicans would drink all day with their suppliers,

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_02]: with their customers.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It was extended practice.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, it was, there was a lot of mess.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of carnage as a result of that.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And the Productivity Commission did a massive study.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I think they worked out alcohol-related issues

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: accounted for $10 billion cost to the economy.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But the excise that they actually made from alcohol

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: was only about about $3 billion.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_02]: There was like the $7 billion gap in the cost of...

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why they put the tax up.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why they put the tax up, Dad.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It's to make more money

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: because they knew they couldn't stop it.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And they can't because look at prohibition, they tried.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It's still everywhere in every culture,

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_02]: every country, every land makes alcohol from something.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_02]: It's imbued into our blood, you know?

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And on that note, I want to devote the next section

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: to that and relate it to our family as well.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I know there's a history around...

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're just a bunch of drunks.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to make it a little bit more Mediterranean

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: than that, to be honest.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm mad if they're all Indian drunks.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, more on booze next.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So when I did these courses for these old publicans,

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I had to really know my stuff, right?

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So I started researching, I got on dial-up internet.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I was going...

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I finally get on to get one website to download.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: This is in the 90s, right?

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I learned a bit about alcohol.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, you sounded like Spike Milligan there.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how the dial-up worked, but that's all right.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thank you for the compliment.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I learned about the history of alcohol

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and it turned out that obviously alcohol itself

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: has always been a natural byproduct

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_02]: of fermenting foodstuffs, organic matter, right?

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't matter if it's grains or fruits

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: or whatever, right?

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Potatoes, if it can rot, it can create ethyl alcohol.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I read at one point that the earliest forms of distillation

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: came from actually not boiling alcohol but freezing it

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: when the Nordics would let the potato peels

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_02]: that were rotten freeze and the actual frozen bit

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: would be the water that could peel off the frozen bit

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and the liquid left that didn't freeze was alcohol.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously when they started to boil it

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and they started to separate ethyl alcohol

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and recondensate it and imbue it.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So I had to do all this research, right?

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds very scientific and now there's this whole

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: molecular by mixology sort of movement

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: where everyone knows about the viscosity of this

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and the alcohol quantant of that

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and all that sort of bullshit.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But the bottom line is what I'm saying is

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I understood at that point that even the elephants

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_02]: in the Sahara would eat the fermenting

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and marula berries and get drunk

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and play around and be silly, right?

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And I started to understand that this wasn't just us

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: drinking Jim Beaman coax and getting wasted

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_02]: or scotch and coax.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: This has been around for not just decades or hundreds of years

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_02]: but thousands of years, maybe 10,000 years,

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but it's the association

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: with mammals potentially

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and maybe more with fermented sort of

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: intoxicating effects of fermented organic matter

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: has been around.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm setting a very like lobe foundation

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: for all this conversation about booze

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: but I'm trying to say, I guess, is that

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: we have as human beings a relationship

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and an almost a connection

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: with something that's been in our lives

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: for millennia.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very true, son.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably why trying to saw us ricks

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: was such a vicious bastard.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's because he was drunk.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: How did he hit it with those little arms?

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It was the big mouth and the teeth.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's right.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He could bite.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I came off my rocking horse just then.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So look, all I was trying to do was lay a foundation,

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: throw some truth bombs out there

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_02]: but I guess when it comes down to it, dad,

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, it's things, these things are passed down

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: through the generations and I know that

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: on the Croatian side, on your side,

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_02]: on Granite side at least.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Dalmatian side.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Dalmatian side.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a very strong bond

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and I've been over that part of the world before

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and had the grappers and stuff, you know,

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_02]: with great spirits and with wine

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and with what have you.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So why don't you take us in a bit of a journey back

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of more recent history with booze

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and how it sort of turns up in our lives?

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_00]: My father did what his father,

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: my grandfather did,

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: who did what his father did,

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00]: who did what his father did, etc.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And they all grew grapes

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_00]: or procured grapes from growers

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: to make their own wine.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So no matter what their occupation,

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_00]: they were all wine makers?

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: When you go back in time,

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_00]: there weren't things like...

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Bottleshops.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You had to make your own.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_02]: If you want it, you make it.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I tell you what,

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: talking about responsible service of alcohol,

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, okay, well yeah, sure,

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you can drink as much as you want.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You just got to make it.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Very quick.

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll savor this stuff, right?

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard work.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And this was passed down my line.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The donation line from my father.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody drank.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I was brought up in an environment

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: where there was nobody who was tea total

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and the predominant drink

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: because of the Mediterranean history

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: was wine,

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: but you learn to drink at a very early age.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I was a curious kid

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and I asked questions,

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was only when I was about 10

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that they'd give me a glass of water

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: with a little bit of wine to taste it.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That late?

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: As you see, wine was associated

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: not only with having a good time,

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was always there at mealtime.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just learned that wine and food

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: went together.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Now that's not the background

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: of my school friends,

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: many of whom had an English heritage

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: which was very austere

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and focused more on beer than wine.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But I just grew up,

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: like my dad in the wash house

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: which was on the lower level

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_00]: of the commission house,

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was on a sloping piece of ground.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: He set up a little cellar

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and I got in the big barrel

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and trampled the grapes

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in the harvest.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember doing that with it is other place.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So me and my brother insist

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: to trample in the grapes as well?

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes. I've got a photograph of your sister

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: literally trampling the grapes.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not until you do that

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: till you see all the bugs in the grapes

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and then you're like, oh my God.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you crushed them.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The spiders die.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Alcohol kills a lot of things.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It looks like we actually get some protein in our booze

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_02]: because there's so many bugs.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't believe it.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: They do make a genuine attempt

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: to wash the grapes and so forth,

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: but the grapes are so close.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The wine grapes in particular

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: are so closely packed.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can't see them.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't see these things.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just give you a quick fact here?

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I saw this yesterday on Facebook

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and I've just found it now.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It says until 1956,

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: French children attending school

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: will serve wine on their lunch breaks.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Each pupil was entitled to four glasses a day.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you believe that?

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's moderation.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I like that.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Four glasses.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: They've been taught self-control.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So this was...

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it might have been just a Facebook meme

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and I just looked it up.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's in the middle of it on Microsoft Bing.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's still not accurate,

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: but there were four glasses a day

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: school kids. Isn't that crazy?

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So what are we now?

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Seven years later,

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_02]: it would be illegal to give you kids.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, but we live in a PC work world

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and all that rubbish.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this was teaching the children

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: how to behave responsibly

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and how to deal with it.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they still say

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: in some of these European countries,

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a lot of drinking

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and often even the measuring

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: of the alcohol into the glasses

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: isn't a big thing.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But there might be a lot of drunk people,

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: but there's not a lot of violence

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and not a lot of fights

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and not a lot of domestic violence.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe I'm wrong,

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: but it seems to be that

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a different culture that exists

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: here in the newer world

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: with regards to a relationship

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: with alcohol and society

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and what have you.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: There is a huge cost to it.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It is the most dangerous drug.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It contributes to more deaths

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and more violence than anything else.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's because it's so widespread

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: across the population

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's legal.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I know, I know.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously things are changing now

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: with the pot,

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, the medical marijuana

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and all the rest of it.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a bit of a slackening

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: around what they used to think

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: was called hard drugs.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But alcohol is a drug as well, right?

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I mean, it's not full ourselves.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a drug of dependence.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, let's not walk away

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_00]: from the naked truth behind it all.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've drunk wine all my life

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's from my background.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have a pretty high tolerance

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_00]: because when I was young,

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I did all the things, you know,

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you get drunk, drink too much,

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: too soon, et cetera.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't listen to my father who said,

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_00]: son, always have something in your stomach

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_00]: before you drink.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Very wise advice.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I learnt how wise it was

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_00]: several times when I was young.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we all learnt how important that is, yeah.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Because of my background,

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I've never been violent with alcohol

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_00]: in my system.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Funnily enough, it makes me more caring.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: To be truthful, at my age,

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I drink what is medically termed

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: too much in alcoholism.

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But I drink my two bottles a day

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: over 18 hours

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's food involved.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So most people, friends,

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: see me with a glass of wine

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and I've moderated the habit.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But I only drink these 125 ml

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: from, I should say, these 125 ml

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: sampling glasses.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So two bottles in Australian terms,

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: 700 ml, 1.5 litres,

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure what that is in gallons.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And it sounds like a lot

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: to a lot of people who don't drink.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And the ethanol content

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: is on average about 13%.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So you use this 30%

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: of 1.5 litres.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And look, I don't judge because

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I know I certainly have partied

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and I know a lot of people out there

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: have their big weekends

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and they'll drink half a bottle of Jack Daniels

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: or what have you.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And we know that there is

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: a very strong relationship,

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: particularly worldwide really

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_02]: with alcohol, doesn't matter what culture you're in.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But when I look at today's age

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and I look at my own,

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: it's sort of a

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: challenge with self-discipline sometimes,

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: going okay, look, I'm going out to

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: see a friend. I'll have a beer

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: but I want to drive back.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't want to have two or three or five.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They say shots, I say no,

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm driving, whatever.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you start turning up to

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: a christening event of a little kid

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and I was like where's the booze?

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said hey baby showers

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and then every event,

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it doesn't matter what time of the day,

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_02]: catching up on brunch, it's brunch

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: with the friends. It's a nice Sunday Sunday.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Next minute there's a bottle of shawty

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_02]: under the belt by 5pm

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and it just

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_02]: soaks into so

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_02]: many parts of one's life.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I know for many,

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: including myself, like I've definitely had my struggles,

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: it becomes

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: its own demon.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It is

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_02]: something to reckon with.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Well I've taken one of those

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: voices off my shoulder.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a voice of reason.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what?

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually wrote something down

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: that you made me

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_02]: think of

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that relates exactly to this

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and I've got to find it here.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh here it goes, alright.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I was hoping this would come up.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So when it comes down to it, I'm Mr Self Help

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and he's Mr I'll Help Myself

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds sensible to me.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah, look I definitely

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: struggled dad and I've seen

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_02]: you in your struggles with

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_02]: drinking. Sorry

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_02]: you're right, there's not so much of a struggle of drinking

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's just I think you drink too much

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and I don't want to be

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that dependent on it. You know I want to be

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_02]: able to not drink

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: for a period of time, a month,

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_02]: a year, at least a weekend

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and you can't do that.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes I can.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah there's at least 10 minutes

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in between every drink.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yes.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I spaced myself.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's still spaces but then it might

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_02]: come down to that's

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_02]: 30 seconds between each sip.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: However you wish to define it.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we'll just get the drip.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: The drip coming.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Well look, I bring this up

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: not just to, I don't want to

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: make it personalise it because

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm being vulnerable myself

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: in saying that it's a challenge, right?

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I've thought about giving up

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: alcohol forever, becoming sober.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I've done it for months at a time now

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I found that the benefits

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: of not drinking actually do our way

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_02]: the benefits of drinking in a number of ways

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_02]: but there is also a real pleasure

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: to drinking as well

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and also a temptation and a sort of

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe it is that addictive

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of element of being drawn

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: to it. So it's a

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_02]: challenging one for a lot of people, you know

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm just as human as the rest of us.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like you, I've thought about it too.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah man.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Dozens and dozens of times.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you went, I'll help myself thanks.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Well there was no one else to pour

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_00]: it's just me when you live alone

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you know.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Top me up sir!

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Emails from Dagger

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: emails from Dagger Segment

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and I did something a little bit nefarious

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: last week.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh that's not like you.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I did.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I sent you an email

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_02]: because I wanted to actually get your response

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_02]: to it so I could read it out on emails of the week.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Why not?

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that nefarious?

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, it's not nefarious.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's devious. So anyway

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_02]: for the listeners, you know, Dad sends a lot of emails

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_02]: all sorts of stuff he calls it

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: like the mat crap songs

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and poetry and quotes

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and long winded things about concerts

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and all sorts of stuff right.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like man you got so much stuff there

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to get something on this segment

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's such a popular segment.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to teach it.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Not anymore with that ego bouncing around.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So I went okay.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So I sent, I went alright

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got something here and I saw this thing

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_02]: on this Netflix show and it said

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the quote came up at the start of the movie saying

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_02]: we don't see things as they are

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_02]: we see things

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: as we are

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and I went oh

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: that's deep. So I looked it on Google

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_02]: right and I thought you know

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I like that kind of concept. It makes sense

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: to me that we imbue

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_02]: our perception it's like filtered through our own

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_02]: perception of who we think we are

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: that self-concept all that sort of stuff.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway then I googled and I found this link

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_02]: to this whole history of this thing

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_02]: going back hundreds of years

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_02]: or at least a couple hundred years

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and I thought you know what this would be really good

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_02]: to send back to Dad as a sort of

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: retaliatory strike to say

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: here have some of your own medicine

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and so I sent him this quote

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_02]: with this link to this huge history

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_00]: of this quote. So this means we are Russian

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_00]: in the Ukraine are we?

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_02]: He was like this is a lot of crap

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_02]: this is too much to read and I'm thinking

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: now you know how I feel

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: no you sadistic little swine

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: he's like

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: this is what a waste of my time

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like yep

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: oh thank you

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: anyways

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_02]: so I don't know what

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: you think of that phrase

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Dad but let me just while we're on the

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_02]: subject you know the quote

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: we don't see things as they are

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: we see them as we are

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: it seems self-evident that's what

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: you and Anishka wrote back

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_02]: why is it so self-evident?

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Many of the world's great religions

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: particularly

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the Asian religions

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and all zero in on

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Buddhism

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: have something like this

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and Hinduism too

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: as a central tenet

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not said

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that way but the words

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_00]: they use

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_00]: imply

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that we project ourselves

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: onto the blank canvas of the universe

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and what we see

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_00]: is fundamentally our own

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_00]: creation

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_02]: so simple but

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_02]: it's so believable

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah and

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had a lifetime studying

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: mythology and religions

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and all sorts of pastimes

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_00]: many lifetimes

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: there's so much wisdom out there

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: it's unbelievable

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm not

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: knocking Christianity in its

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_00]: various forms

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_00]: because that too has wisdom

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_00]: there's just a different focus

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Well one just speaking of

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: traditional religions one of the other

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: expressions just kind of as a

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: build to that that I got from

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the Bible and not that I've read the Bible

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: but I know Jesus said it was

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: forgive them for they know not what they do

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: yes

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: forgive them for they know not what they do

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that has served me

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that expression

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: it's helped me let go of stuff because I've gone

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_02]: forgive them for they know not what they do

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_02]: alright got it

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: there's some expressions that help

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that was when he was being crucified

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: wow and

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: okay I didn't actually know that

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: at the very least I can extend the courtesy

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_02]: of someone who's a bit cross with me

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and acting out of some

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: past hurt I can go forgive

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_00]: my memory is a little faulty

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: oh you're probably

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying he was on the cross when he said it

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was part of the

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: process

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the crucifixion process

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and um one of the

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Old Testament

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_00]: saints

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking of John but it could be wrong

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: said he who is

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_00]: without sin cast the first stone

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because they used to stone people

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00]: to death and that's an

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_00]: incredible hypocrisy right

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_02]: wow well look

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: it's definitely be a wide ranging

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_02]: discussion of this episode

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's time to

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_02]: bring it to a close

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: the meet in him podcast

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_02]: gonna call this the booze

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: episode and

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: we heard a bit more about your

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: lineage and what do you think

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: is coming up next dad where do you

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: want to go we can go anywhere son

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_02]: like I mean

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of the story the family story

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: or family story you know

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_00]: we'll talk about the marriage and

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_00]: having you three children

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and oh that sounds awesome

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: what a total nightmare it was

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I just come on

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: come on

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: we were delightful I was

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I know I was all singing or dancing

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I came out just ready to

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: please

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't know the truth no I was

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: a part of a nightmare I admit it

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I was told so many times I was

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: a little bastard keeping everyone up all night

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: screaming

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: your older sister

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_00]: was the same

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: there's only Damien about third child

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: who was as a baby

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: as placid as anything

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: we couldn't believe we'd been blessed by

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: that was the same with

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: my third son as well

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: just comics very relaxed

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: alright well it's been a pleasure

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: another good episode done

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm going to call it quits

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and we'll see you next time

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02]: okay I'll go and have my glass of water now

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah go have that animal

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: oh

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: that's on Wednesday

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_00]: oops

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_02]: sorry